Intel officer versus enlisted

[6strings78]

Greetings everyone. Thank you in advance for reading this post and providing comments. I'm having a bit of a dilemma. After being out of military service for several years I'm looking to re-enter in the US Navy because they are the only ones who will 1) accept me at my age, and 2) allow me to pursue something other than my original career field in the Army. As a young enlisted soldier in the Army I always wanted to shoot for becoming an officer. It's taken me some time, but I finally have some credentials behind me to be qualified to become an officer. My question is this, I want to go into the intel field. I've heard mixed reports on officer versus enlisted in terms of hands on experience. What I am wondering is to what level would I, if I am accepted, be involved in real hands on intel collection/analysis as an officer versus enlisted? I don't want to just manage/oversee intel work, I want to DO intel work. I'd appreciate any insight that anyone can offer into this.

 

[revan1013]

Many new intel-o's end up at a squadron doing security/ATFP work for a few years as their first tour before moving on to staff jobs/DC work. You won't be doing intel work, exactly, for a good chunk of your career as an intel-o. You will be managing those who do the raw data collection and analysis, and providing solid briefs and advice to senior leadership.

That, and you'll be very, very good at power-point. I like our current spy quite a bit, but he's doing the whole "alone and unafraid" work as the only intel person in the squadron. Your experience may vary, of course.

 

[azguy]

"Doing" intel work may not mean what you think it does. Navy intel (O and E) is a corps of analysts, they aren't collectors. If you want to play James Bond, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Intel officers work very hard and definitely "do" intel work. In fact, I'm impressed by many of their O5/O-6 crowd, as they seem to remain very hands on and involved in analysis.

Of course, as officers, intel O's also have supervisory responsibilities. If you don't want to have to worry about that stuff, don't be an officer.

 

[6strings78]

"Doing" intel work may not mean what you think it does. Navy intel (O and E) is a corps of analysts, they aren't collectors. If you want to play James Bond, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Intel officers work very hard and definitely "do" intel work. In fact, I'm impressed by many of their O5/O-6 crowd, as they seem to remain very hands on and involved in analysis.

Of course, as officers, intel O's also have supervisory responsibilities. If you don't want to have to worry about that stuff, don't be an officer.

I have no hang-ups about responsibilities and I also don't have any delusions of playing 007 either. What I'm trying to get at is this...after I got out of the Army I got a job as a supervisor of Substation maintenance workers for a big power company in Illinois. I could never do their work, I only managed, helped plan, made sure they had what they needed to do the work etc...therefore I could not DO substation maintenance work. This is what I don't want to have happen. I hope that clarifies what I am trying to get at. I don't want to simply take what others have collected put a bow on it and hand it to someone with my recommendations. Perhaps this is nowhere near what an intel officer does. I'm just trying to figure things out before I jump into anything and regret it.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I would ask some pointed questions about getting in as prior service as that faucet gets turned off and on very easily and some recruiters will always say "sure" but they don't bother asking anyone above them.

If you want to be an officer than apply, you should be able to get an application in for the next board, be aware the selection rate is oh so very low, and the new view is tech degrees take priority, but if you want to be an officer than apply for officer don't go enlisted hoping to get picked up officer.

 

[LET73]

Greetings everyone. Thank you in advance for reading this post and providing comments. I'm having a bit of a dilemma. After being out of military service for several years I'm looking to re-enter in the US Navy because they are the only ones who will 1) accept me at my age, and 2) allow me to pursue something other than my original career field in the Army. As a young enlisted soldier in the Army I always wanted to shoot for becoming an officer. It's taken me some time, but I finally have some credentials behind me to be qualified to become an officer. My question is this, I want to go into the intel field. I've heard mixed reports on officer versus enlisted in terms of hands on experience. What I am wondering is to what level would I, if I am accepted, be involved in real hands on intel collection/analysis as an officer versus enlisted? I don't want to just manage/oversee intel work, I want to DO intel work. I'd appreciate any insight that anyone can offer into this.

In general, the enlisted guys do more intel work, if by intel work you mean research, crunch numbers, build briefs, and give briefs. The officer might say, "Hey, that's interesting that the Russians are doing X. IS3 6strings78, can you go through message traffic and some of our old products and find out when the last time was that they did that, and how many times they've done it?" You're still doing intel as an officer, because you have to understand the problem set and see how it fits into the bigger picture of what your leadership is interested in. Part of it, though, is what you described above--planning and making sure your people have the resources they need.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think Navy Intel is what you make of it. It is mostly a check in the box for most, at least at the entry level squadron AI level. You have a vast knowledge base in the ready room, but many aren't honestly that interested in the air side of things. The only "intel work" you are likely to do is hitting bing.com for hours on end, but more likely taking post flight reports from aircrew or making the CVIC scroll. Just like any other ENS job, you don't know shit and everyone else knows a lot more about everything than you do.

 

[azguy]

Just like any other ENS job, you don't know shit and everyone else knows a lot more about everything than you do.

Nice

 

[Gatordev]

I have no hang-ups about responsibilities and I also don't have any delusions of playing 007 either. What I'm trying to get at is this...after I got out of the Army I got a job as a supervisor of Substation maintenance workers for a big power company in Illinois. I could never do their work, I only managed, helped plan, made sure they had what they needed to do the work etc...therefore I could not DO substation maintenance work. This is what I don't want to have happen. I hope that clarifies what I am trying to get at. I don't want to simply take what others have collected put a bow on it and hand it to someone with my recommendations. Perhaps this is nowhere near what an intel officer does. I'm just trying to figure things out before I jump into anything and regret it.

Speaking generally, as an officer, it's going to be rare that you know "how" to do the work that your enlisted do. I don't know how to time and head-space a GAU. I don't know how to make an adjustment to a rotor blade. I, however, know how to pull out a black box and drop it on the ground and then put it back in. But I digres... Generally, I understand what they're doing, and over time, what they need (or ask if I don't), and that's where the management comes in. How you can enable your guys to get the mission done with available resources is the job requirement for an officer, not to get in there and turn wrenches with them.

 

[jmcquate]

I f you are looking for "big picture" intel work, go 3 letter if you can. Navy Intel deals with focused Navy things. The community deals with a much more dynamic stuff (technical term) ..........and a better dental plan.

 

[azguy]

I f you are looking for "big picture" intel work, go 3 letter if you can. Navy Intel deals with focused Navy things. The community deals with a much more dynamic stuff (technical term) ..........and a better dental plan.

I'd argue that your average IC cube farmer is just as bored on a day to day basis as your average Navy intel guy. Some really cool shops on both sides of the fence - lots of not so cool shops too.

 

[LFCFan]

As an officer, you will be leading sailors. But as LET73 points out, you will still be doing intel. The sailors fill in a lot of the blanks or do pieces of work for you that make a bigger product. As an IS, you'll have more opportunities to specialize than as an officer, and depending on your long terms goals that might open some doors for you at highly specialized three letter agencies later. It just depends. Quality of life will be better as an officer for sure.

Many new intel-o's end up at a squadron doing security/ATFP work for a few years as their first tour before moving on to staff jobs/DC work.

Unfortunately, as revan says, most squadron intel Os end up stuck doing collateral duties all the time. A part of that is because of the attitude that....

Just like any other ENS job, you don't know shit and everyone else knows a lot more about everything than you do.

Which isn't always true, and is toxic to the intel community. Squadron intel Os are underutilized, which leads to a lack of good training, which leads to collateral duties. Further, the bad reputation scares off promising first/second tour officers, which hurts the squadrons. As you can see, it is a vicious cycle, but it is one that is getting attention among CAG AIs (wing intel Os for the unfamiliar) and is hopefully changing in the future. The training is getting better for all navy intel Os, as are the resources for squadron AIs to learn independently. There are some damn good squadron AIs out there that can help even patch wearers better understand the threat, whether it is about enemy IADS, AAMs, and even some stuff at the tactical level (this last bit I will concede is pretty rare). In short "they don't know shit" is a bad approach for both the spy and the squadron, as they won't actually get the most out of each other.

Of course, the easy thing to do if you don't want to end up being a security manager/geedunk O/EKMS manager/1324 other things for 2 or 3 years is to not pick a squadron, which is easy, but if you love aviation stuff, the best thing to do is pick it and do your best work so that you don't end up doing so many jobs and so that your successor doesn't have to either. Another trick that works (but not always) is to try and get in squadrons with more aircrew.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Having been stationed near an Army base while an OR I would encounter guys that had been enlisted Army that wanted to be USN Intel Officers, in general they were under the perception they would be in the field collecting info, out with SEALs, and other stuff.

I would have them talk to our Intel officer, most then went a different path.

 

[6strings78]

Gentlemen-thanks so much for all the information. I really appreciate this. I could never get this kind of info from the recruiter here in Germany. You've all given me a lot to think about. I'm in the process of studying for the OAR now which is a bit daunting as math is not my forte. This is a bit off topic, but something that I started wondering about as I am studying...I'm going to make an assumption, which I know is dangerous, but I assume the math crap on this OAR is just a hoop for me to jump through and that I would not be doing any of this an Intel O. I took a STAT 200 class in college and I got an A, but math is not something that comes easily to me. I'm just wondering.

As for my use of the term "collecting" I obviously used the term out of context. I do not want to be out in the field with SEALs hunting down 'bad guys,' I like doing analysis. I guess what I meant when I used the term "collection" was more of collecting data, not interrogating people or anything of that nature. I'd like to be taking the information that is available and trying to make sense of it. Figuring out why the bad guys are doing what they are doing and what they may be doing next etc... maybe I am naive about how this works, but it is difficult to get a full picture of what to expect from the official Navy.com descriptions.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Gentlemen-thanks so much for all the information. I really appreciate this. I could never get this kind of info from the recruiter here in Germany. You've all given me a lot to think about. I'm in the process of studying for the OAR now which is a bit daunting as math is not my forte. This is a bit off topic, but something that I started wondering about as I am studying...I'm going to make an assumption, which I know is dangerous, but I assume the math crap on this OAR is just a hoop for me to jump through and that I would not be doing any of this an Intel O. I took a STAT 200 class in college and I got an A, but math is not something that comes easily to me. I'm just wondering.

As for my use of the term "collecting" I obviously used the term out of context. I do not want to be out in the field with SEALs hunting down 'bad guys,' I like doing analysis. I guess what I meant when I used the term "collection" was more of collecting data, not interrogating people or anything of that nature. I'd like to be taking the information that is available and trying to make sense of it. Figuring out why the bad guys are doing what they are doing and what they may be doing next etc... maybe I am naive about how this works, but it is difficult to get a full picture of what to expect from the official Navy.com descriptions.

Are you good with powerpoint? The Intel O's I knew joked about having to do lots of powerpoint presentations, the funny thing is they were in fact the ones that were the powerpoint experts at the command.