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schmuckatelli

*********
Originally posted by Steve Wilkins
Here on the CVN, where airdales are in charge, there is obviously little to no direction on proper movie showing.

That is because we were too busy trying to figure out a way to get rid of the SUPPO that ordered 100,000 lbs. of chicken for us to enjoy during all those great days on that great warship. Thanks for the full-court press; keep smiling! (hehehehe)
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
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Originally posted by Steve Wilkins
....Of course, this is only true on small boys where SWO's run the show.

Hmmm...only a SWO would think SWOs are in charge of the pilots. I suppose your right, that the shoes think they're pulling one over on the pilots. Let's see, while they're at GQ, we're being "forced" to watch Groundhog Day (or DTS). Boy, they got us on that one!
icon_smile_wink.gif


I always enjoyed it when the DCTT member would open our door to "check for survivors," and we're in our rack. Of course, he used to be an AO on a carrier, so he'd just grin and move on.
 

FrogFly

Knibb High Football Rules!
That's why I always got an authorized "GQ Sleeper" sign to hang up on my rack. Well, I'm to assume the O's didn't have to worry too much about that.
 

Gatordev

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pilot
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That's a good idea. Our guys had their own set of racks that were seperated from the rest in CC3. 14 of the 15 guys slept in there, so the night check guys were fairly immune. Of course, the XO, thinking he was being sneaky, set off a smoke pot down there during the day one time for a drill.

He came back to our OIC later and said "Well, 3 of your guys died today." To which the OIC said, "So, that means the bird is down now because you've interupted rest for the night maintainers." There's definately a different way of thinking in SWO land...
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
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No, not "SWO land." We are sea-going creatures. There are those of us in the Navy and then those who just play Navy. GQ = all hands evolution.

Ok, Batman, riddle me this. Why does it take so many damn aviators to accomplish a task? For instance, aviators have their ground job which is typically Public Affairs, Legal, Admin, Strike, etc, etc,...this list goes on. Your ground jobs are SWO's collateral duties.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Hmmm,

I believe that our primary job is to fly our aircraft first. That would mean that any other duty like Public Affairs, Legal, etc would be secondary or "collateral". Hmmm.....

OK, Robin, riddle me this. If the duty of a SWO is to drive a ship, then why doesn't the Navy allow SWO's to command the Mother of all ships the Carrier?

Dave
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
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Dave,

Yea...hmmmm. I think once you get to your first operational squadron you'll find that your ground job is what you actually get evaluated on (i.e. Fitrep).

Second. If you really think the primary duty of a SWO is to drive the ship, then you need to do some homework.

I can't elaborate on your comment of the carrier being the mother of all ships since I'm not sure what you mean. Please explain, and I can either agree with you or post my rebuttal.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
OK,

I forgot. How we fly and the qualifications we get aren't reflected on fitreps. Hell, flying is easy. Who needs to qualify as a flight leader, instructor or upgrade from being the third pilot on a P-3 to being the first. Shoot this is the Navy, its all about boats right? Why have Aviators at all? Shouldnt that be an Air Force thing? The Navy could save a whole lot of money on teaching us how to fly and just send us to supply, legal or an admin school. Especially since thats what fitreps are actually evaluated on.

My comment on SWO's driving the ship wasnt to be taken literally ie at the helm. I think you know what I meant by my driving the ship comment. If not then...

The carrier. Hmm where to start. Doesnt the fleet pretty much revolve around a carrier? You've got this really big ship with a bunch of pesky plains buzzin around. Around and under this floating air strip, there are smaller ships and subs. These ships are in the battle group to do many tasks, but are mainly there to protect the carrier. So, it would seem that the biggest and arguably the most important is the carrier. ie the mother of all ships comment. So, as one moves up the chain of command, it seems that one would eventually want to take command of his or her squadron or ship. To recap a SWO would command a ship and an aviator a squadron. Well then, why cant a SWO command a carrier? And if aviators are just really admin and legalies, we know this because thats what our fitreps are based upon, then why put them in charge of a carrier? Is there a conspiracy? Is projecting air power really that important? Heck, SWO's can even wear brown shoes now. Why can't we all get along?

Dave
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
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Originally posted by Steve Wilkins
Your ground jobs are SWO's collateral duties.
Ok, first off, GROUND JOB = COLLATERAL DUTY.

It is same shipboard as it is in the aviation community (I have seen both as you know Steve). Your primary job is qualification in your warfare specialty. You are given a set time to get your warfare pin, if you don't do it in the time allotted, "see ya!". In my case, if I didn't make 2P by 12 months, or the final upgrade to PPC in 24 then I can expect a FNEB and possible departure from Naval Aviation. Same goes for submarines, you don't get your dolphins (silver or gold) by I believe 12 months (been awhile), the command loses its silver or gold dolphin pennant and you might be pulled from the community.

You have your PQS, you have your training flights (same thing as you being scheduled for JOOD or standing engineering watches), but then there are many other flights that you are doing your #1 job, and that is to fly and get the missions done. When all is said and done, you just finished that 3 hour preflight, 7 hour tactical mission, and 1 hour post flight, then you go back to your desk and find a pile of work waiting for you on your collateral duties, or in the case of aviators, it is called our "ground job". Depending on what ground job you have at a given moment determines in a way how it important/priority it is compared to your main job of flying. Legal Officer or Safety Officer are two reactionary billets, if something happens, you are more than likely going to get pulled from whatever event you had on the flight sked, and scramble to put the fires out, or provide answers/solutions to the CO and chain of command.

In the end, we both have the same tasks to do as junior officers and what is expected of us:

1. Qualify in your warfare specialty (w/o that you are useless to your community)
2. Perform your mission (whether it is standing watch or flying planes)
3. Tackle your collateral duties/ground job

And speaking of FITREPs, my last two centered around my warfare qualification, flight hours, and missions I participated in. Secondly were my "collateral duties/ground jobs" (Legal Officer and then Strike Officer). You could be the best damn Tac Pubs Officer, or PAO, but if you don't qualify on time, pass your quarterly NATOPs exams, do well on your check rides, or keep up with the PQS or flight syllabus, god help you. That stellar work in your ground job won't mean **** for your FITREP. Now if you juggle both (or several, I had multiple ground jobs) well, then of course you are going to have a much better FITREP and get ranked ahead of your peers.

As for GQ, well, you train in Damage Control and fighting to save the ship, or preparing to "fight the ship", as the case may be. Well, when we go flying, it is not just to burn JP8. Every event I fly on we run our emergency procedures. Fire on the ground with a full tactical crew, ditching procedures, bailout procedures, fire of unknown origin in flight. Same type of fun that I experienced on board ship, and they both do the same thing, prepare us so to face the unexpected. That just encompasses the crew, but we train just as hard in the flight station, from practicing 2 or 3 engine landings, no flap landings, or simulated prop/engine malfunctions. So, where I am going with this? You stumble across a flight crew sleeping in their berthing while you are running your shipboard drill. And you complain, why are they living the high life, and getting out of it? Well, what do you think they were doing while you were watching a movie in the wardroom and they were running flight ops?
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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Gosh I love this stuff. I have heard it for 20 years. Well I take that back. I personally heard it the first 5 or 6 years of my career because after that everyone has pretty much gotten the big picture. It is alot more fun (and easy) beating up on Air Farce officers then our shipmates. Couple things...In the three airwings I was in and two ships I flew off of the aircrews GQ station was either the readyroom or his stateroon. That is right, assigned to the stateroom! Those that had an event in the near future were expected to be standing by in the readyroom so they didn't have to break zebra to get to the brief. If you had already flown, wasn't on the schedule for hours or there were no flight ops at all. The stateroom was the place to be. The reason was that the duty officer then knew where to get you. This disbursement also prevented a lucky shot hitting the readyroom taking out an entire squadron a aviators. All squadron officers completed a Damage Control PQS and fire fighting and was, of course, expected to help fight the ship if his aide was necessary. No one will lay in his rack reading while water starts to run under the door and smoke fills his lungs. CV skippers are aviators because someone thinks that it is harder for a SWO to learn aviation stuff than an aviator to learn SWO stuff, right? NO! This is the Navy and every unrestricted line officer should aspire to at least have the opportunity to command a ship. At least that is what your detailer would tell ya. After command of a squadron an aviator is too senior to command most Navy ships. If they screen for a ship command they start with XO of a CV, usually, and then command a large avaition ship like an AOE. If they don't screw up or burn out they get a shot at a CV. In the early years, past WW II, CV COs were not always aviators. There is no reason a SWO can't command a CV. It is really the brown shoe mafia that saw to it the CV was a 13XX billet. I personally think it should change. The very best should get the job whether water wings, NFO or Pilot wings.
 
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