IFS down the tubes?

[Jim123]

I've flown close to the North Pole and didn't have any problem using GPS/IRU nav. The trick is remembering true vs mag headings since the variation up there is like 60 degrees. I'm pretty glad I don't do celestial nav, that seems like it would be a pain.

When you're at the North Pole every direction is south, right? I mean, how hard can the navigation possibly be?

 

[scoolbubba]

Pick a direction...if ATC has a Russian Accent, turn around. If they say aboot, press.

 

[Swanee]

This part is fascinating…still the current thinking? Any more info? Full career path available?

There is a new UAV officer MOS in the Marine Corps now too.

 

[OnTopTime]

When you're at the North Pole every direction is south, right? I mean, how hard can the navigation possibly be?

At the beginning of my first deployment, to Kef, my crew went on Det to Thule for a week for some IceEx fun. The CO was with us, and on the way back to Kef he wanted to fly over the North Pole. The route part of my Nav brief was pretty simple: "we're going to fly due north to here (pointing to the North Pole on the chart), and then due south to Kef."

We used grid nav at high latitudes, because most headings given with conventional bearings resulted in an extremely curved flight path.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I was led to believe that you had to be a rated pilot in the USAF in order to fly UAVs. This is what led to the draft from other platforms in order to populate the CONEX boxes in Nevada with real pilots. I don't really know what they do with their Navs, but I was led to believe that they are going the way of carrying a sextant in the aircraft (yes, the E-6 had one until about 8 years ago).

I know 3 Air Force Navs that were UAV pilots. They had to have a civilian pilots license to be one. The 3 I knew all had Private ASEL & Instrument tickets.

 

[HAL Pilot]

SNFOs used to solo the T-34 (home field pattern at KNPA only, IIRC). Heck, I'm pretty sure even student flight surgeons used to solo the T-34 as part of their syllabus.

Actually I don't think SNFOs ever soloed. I know for a while they were giving them 5 or 6 front seat flights as a fam before starting the actual SNFO syllabus but there was no solo.

Flight Surgeons have always gone through solo. In fact, 3710 used to say Flight Surgeons could fly all phases of flight (i.e. takeoff and landing) if there were two sets of controls and an IP was at the second set. We used to have a FS in VP-46 my first tour who would go bouncing with an IP once a month or so. My DH tour in VP-16 the CO let our FS try his had landing a few times but not with the regularity of the one in VP-46.

 

[MasterBates]

I've let the quack land the E-2 and the 60, to include FCLP passes in the Hummer. One of my RAG IPs in HSL land was a FS, but he was a pilot then went to med school.

Don't know of any docs who have traps as the pilot, unless they were pilots before Med School.

 

[e6bflyer]

There is no more solo in the FS primary syllabus. They only have like 6 or 7 flights, and they are exposure flights. I used to let them fly, land, spin, fly form, and do whatever they wanted as long as they wanted to. Some didn't care, others were super motivated.
I don't know if there is a solo in the advanced portion of their syllabus.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Tasking MasterBates......

Ask your FS friend if they solo and if they are still allowed to t/o & land with IPs. Gracias.

 

[Renegade One]

Don't know of any docs who have traps as the pilot, unless they were pilots before Med School.

There was a time…'76 - '77 timeframe or thereabouts, when the Navy had "Dual-Winged" flight surgeons. Came in the Nav as medical officers, obviously, but then went through full flight training to wings and the FRS. We had two of them in VF-121 (F-4 FRS at Miramar during my time). I believe one of them had been a former F-8 pilot before he went to Med School…so his path was somewhat different. The concept didn't last long…by the time I left a year later, think the program had been CNXed and they became normal flight surgeons…no piloting responsibilities or career expectations for same. Of course, they kept their hard-earned pilot wings.

 

[Flash]

There was a time…'76 - '77 timeframe or thereabouts, when the Navy had "Dual-Winged" flight surgeons. Came in the Nav as medical officers, obviously, but then went through full flight training to wings and the FRS. We had two of them in VF-121 (F-4 FRS at Miramar during my time). I believe one of them had been a former F-8 pilot before he went to Med School…so his path was somewhat different. The concept didn't last long…by the time I left a year later, think the program had been CNXed and they became normal flight surgeons…no piloting responsibilities or career expectations for same. Of course, they kept their hard-earned pilot wings.

The program still existed and was active until the early 90's, CAPT David Brown who perished in the space shuttle Columbia accident got his Naval Aviator wings in 1990, when it went moribund for almost a decade. A flight surgeon noticed it still existed on the books in '01 or so and got his application approved to go to flight school. He ended up in Prowlers and I went through the RAG with him, then he ended up in Brett's squadron where they tried to figure out what to do with him.

 

[Renegade One]

The program still existed and was active until the early 90's, CAPT David Brown who perished in the space shuttle Columbia accident got his Naval Aviator wings in 1990, when it went moribund for almost a decade. A flight surgeon noticed it still existed on the books in '01 or so and got his application approved to go to flight school. He ended up in Prowlers and I went through the RAG with him, then he ended up in Brett's squadron where they tried to figure out what to do with him.

Nice shout-out to CAPT Brown…and the other guy. I wasn't aware.

 

[Harrier Dude]

There was a time…'76 - '77 timeframe or thereabouts, when the Navy had "Dual-Winged" flight surgeons. Came in the Nav as medical officers, obviously, but then went through full flight training to wings and the FRS. We had two of them in VF-121 (F-4 FRS at Miramar during my time). I believe one of them had been a former F-8 pilot before he went to Med School…so his path was somewhat different. The concept didn't last long…by the time I left a year later, think the program had been CNXed and they became normal flight surgeons…no piloting responsibilities or career expectations for same. Of course, they kept their hard-earned pilot wings.

I actually met one of these guys the other day. VX-9. Great guy.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think we are mostly missing the main point of IFS. To my understanding, and its name, it was never designed to make the student better. It is purely a screening tool brought by economics, and as was already said, the question is: is it cheaper to send all non-PPL guys to IFS, or is it cheaper to not and deal with the attrites later. You have to take in account how many people fail and at what stage (IFS/API/Primary) to see the cost savings. I hope the reason to cut IFS is that it has been determined to not save money off the bottom line. Otherwise, the counter argument is that to save money, we have cut a money saving program.

For what it is worth, the original post was asking about whether or not lacking IFS would be a detriment to his/her success in flight school.

On an unrelated note, I had a minor cockpit electrical fire in 300 tonight, but I didn't gripe it. It only burned for a few minutes and went away when I shut off the gens in flight, and I didn't even use up all my emergency O2 so I think the next guy will be fine.

 

[jarhead]

FWIW...

from CNATRAINST 3501.1C (INTRODUCTORY FLIGHT SCREENING (IFS) PROGRAM), 19 May 2012

"4. Background. IFS was implemented to decrease flight-related attrition and drop-on-request (DOR) rates in primary flight training by identifying SNA/SNFOs who lack the determination, motivation, or aeronautical adaptability required to succeed in primary flight training and improve the performance of those SNAs and SNFOs without previous aeronautical experience."

I wonder if has decreased the attrition & DOR rates since its inception?

Personally, I started Primary flight school with 0 flight hours. Only ATC comms I had ever heard was on a scanner, but I had gone to a few airshows and flown a flight sim on my Commodore 64. Overall, I was an average Cone...I was told many times that I wasn't too smart but I was at least "trainable".

S/F