IFS Cut in Half

[Mavric09]

For those that are interested, as of this morning until the command decides to change it's mind, IFS has been cut from 20 flights to 10. This means for those who don't know or it's been so long don't remember, you have your check ride at flight 9, then your first solo at flight ten and you're done. And you still have to solo before 13.5 hrs. No more cross-country, diversion, VOR, none of that. Just an FYI.

 

[Triumph57]

Wouldn't this mean SNAs would go to primary less experianced and potentially perform poorly (at least initialy)? Is this because of budget cuts or are there some other reasons?

 

[Pags]

IFS isn't designed to make you fly better in primary, it's there to cheaply separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[squorch2]

Concur with Pags. It's even stated in the acronym: Initial Flight Screening. FWIW, USAF has IFT - Initial Flight Training.

 

[Triumph57]

IFS isn't designed to make you fly better in primary, it's there to cheaply separate the wheat from the chaff.

I see.

 

[srqwho]

Wouldn't this mean SNAs would go to primary less experianced and potentially perform poorly (at least initialy)? Is this because of budget cuts or are there some other reasons?

It won't affect primary performance at all... that's at least my opinion. But, the Nav stuff I learned in IFS was a help during API. I came into the Navy with 0 hours and IFS was very good for me in that it confirmed a lot of things, namely that I had the monkey skills and that I enjoyed it enough to want to make a career out of it. Having said that, I know 3 people who attrited out of flight school in IFS and another who DOR'd while in IFS. But, if I remember correctly those all occurred before the first solo. I'm thinking that if a stud is not going to make it through IFS, they more than likely won't get past the first solo anyhow. Again, all speculation. The solo cross country did feel good to complete and was a confidence booster for me.

 

[smittyrunr]

It sounds from the higher-ups that the value of IFS in general is in question. Not really surprised by this. The drop in attrition they expected has not occurred.

 

[Mavric09]

From what I can gather by reading between the lines from what they have told us between SkyWarriors, Flight Management, and the IFS office. My guess is that it's a combination of a couple of things, but the biggest reason being the budget. The last three months before I started IFS they shut it down and just worked through the end of last years budget from september to december. Got back from christmas break and Flight management said they would only recommend the full 20 hrs and nothing less (coming from XO essentially, but cutting the hrs in half was a rumor and they were trying to squash it). And, they have the numbers that shows IFS does a decent job at screening people cause they were showing them off. So I started IFS with the full program intact and just this morning they said nope cut in half. Everyone already over flight 10 stops where they're at. So, my GUESS here (keep in mind that I am now speculating way above my pay-grade, but it's a thought experiment for what runs through the higher-ups heads, only time will tell is the correct answer) is that they're trying to see if they can cut the hours in half and keep the screening rate the same (so see if the same amount of people drop before the solo) while still cutting the budget. My impression is that this is a temporary thing to experiment and I'm just a guinea pig. I predict that in a couple months it will be back to the full syllabus. Then another decision will be made as they crunch the numbers.

 

[nzachman]

If you can solo, you can solo x-country...the extra 10 hours will not make a difference

 

[KCOTT]

I thought IFS helped tremendously by having 20 flights. It was great getting used to making radio calls and talking with a tower and approach (at least for those who did IFS at Mobile). It made for an easier transition to primary. Also, the cross country solo was great in building confidence.

 

[Ducky]

IFS helped alot if you took it seriously, although some schools had lower standards than others. I had no prior time going into flight school, but I thought it helped provide a foundation to build upon and a leg to stand on when being ranked against guys with prior time. I don't think its pure coincidence that most of my classmates in Meridian had prior time, but thats a conversation for another time. It would probably help more so now being that your grades in primary now count from the first event(We had 8 freebies when I went through). Several people I knew DORd because they didn't like or feel comfortable in IFS which saves money, but I doubt it saves enough money to justify the program on a strictly cost basis.

 

[squeeze]

Like most things in this business, if you don't suck, this won't be a problem.

Solution: Don't suck.

Cue the "...but some people just take longer to get it..." Yes, and that's called sucking.

 

[srqwho]

IFS helped alot if you took it seriously, although some schools had lower standards than others. I had no prior time going into flight school, but I thought it helped provide a foundation to build upon and a leg to stand on when being ranked against guys with prior time. I don't think its pure coincidence that most of my classmates in Meridian had prior time, but thats a conversation for another time. It would probably help more so now being that your grades in primary now count from the first event(We had 8 freebies when I went through). Several people I knew DORd because they didn't like or feel comfortable in IFS which saves money, but I doubt it saves enough money to justify the program on a strictly cost basis.

Totally agree... the different IFS schools each have their own personality and some were notoriously rough (for IFS standards). Having the radio time was big for me. I've talked to a couple guys who all agree that the "advantage" that a guy with prior time has is all but evaporated by the time they head to advanced (all these guys were either fleet tailhook guys or in jet advanced). So does that mean that prior time means you have a better shot at getting what you think you want? I don't think so. From my OCS standpoint, there were guys in my class who commissioned this past May and started OCS in early March. Only one of these guys actually was in a cockpit in 2009. Flying is a perishable skill from what I have encountered... even the basics, and the T-34 isn't a 172. I was flying this past August, and I'd bet that my 25hrs in IFS trumps a 40 hour PPL that happened well over a year (or more) ago from the standpoint of confidence/air work in primary. But, then there are the guys who are IFR rated and have 1000hrs... that's an animal of a different color. I spent the extra money on a Master's Degree. And just like everybody says... the "Navy way" of flying is different, even from an IFS standpoint. That first solo in IFS included 4 laps in the pattern, and you're shaking like hell when you get out of the plane. By the time I flew my cross country my mindset/confidence was at a different level, and although I thinks it's the right decision to cut the program by 50%, I am glad that I was able to go through the 25hr program.

 

[Van]

If you can solo, you can solo x-country...the extra 10 hours will not make a difference

I disagree. I learned a lot about VFR Nav on flights 14-20. I still think I "could have" done a solo XC after flight 10, but I spent a lot of time studying aviation long before I got to IFS (I knew how to tune a VOR, dead reckon, etc.) The extra time spent learning a little bit more about Nav really helped my confidence level and, I believe, my ability to pilot an aircraft. An XC checkride is more than just seeing if you can navigate the local area. I feel confident that I could navigate an aircraft from any one point to another under VFR conditions if I have the proper documents (sectionals, airport diagrams, etc) and some prep time. I did not feel the same way after flight 10.

However, I can see the reasoning behind cutting IFS down. I think the "screening" part is pretty much done around the first stage check anyway. Most people can take off, land, maneuver an aircraft, and not puke by that point. If they can't, they're usually gone anyway. It does suck that everyone will miss out on the rest of the syllabus though, especially flights 13&19. Those were a blast!

 

[FlyinRock]

So, hows that "Hope and Change" working out for you?" I'd say not very well.
Semper fi
Rocky