"Hi" Approaches

[Gator NFO]

During my first instructor tour, we used to shoot the HI ILS into Randolph all the time in the T-43 (B-737) mostly as part of the student harassment program. I only shot a couple of HI approaches my second tour. A lot of the sim profiles for the students also had HI approaches associated with them.

 

[MojoLives]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PropAddict
The sims guys always gave us some justification like, "Well, it's important to stay up at altitude longer in a hostile area to avoid being shot from the ground. Screaming down from 15Kft right over the field is safer than coming in and arcing over at 1000 ft then coming in on a three mile final."




Some truth to this....but that's what the Stuka approach to the battle-break is for.

 

[flyerstud4]

Its a NORDO thing and is probably the worst thing to do if you are trying to save gas in a jet. From what I'm told only flight studs do high approaches anymore, unless you like pain.

 

[Ducky]

For what it's worth I was told by a prior atc controller that they were designed to get large numbers of military aircraft on deck quickly while eliminating most of the workload for the controller(stack em and clear em). They do not save gas and they take up much more airspace than a low approach.

 

[zipmartin]

They do not save gas and they take up much more airspace than a low approach.

They do take up more airspace because they generally start out much farther from the field due to the altitude to get down. I remember from my student days a HI-TACAN in west Texas (might have been Midland, maybe Sweetwater) that started overhead the TACAN (located at the field) and teardropped 3 times over the station during the penetration. Never got more than 10 miles from the field. An exception to the not saving gas statement --- NAS Dallas. We would save 300-400 pounds or more by shooting the HI-TACAN RWY35 to the overhead vice an enroute descent and getting slowed and vectored with all the commercial traffic in the DFW TCA....a big difference when we often landed with 800-1000 lbs. The TRACON guys liked it better that way too. They had one less blip to be concerned about.

 

[bunk22]

We used to shoot Hi-Tacan's in the T-2C quite a bit. I even did a few in the COD.

 

[A4sForever]

..... An exception to the not saving gas statement --- NAS Dallas. We would save 300-400 pounds or more by shooting the HI-TACAN RWY35 to the overhead vice an enroute descent and getting slowed and vectored with all the commercial traffic in the DFW TCA....a big difference when we often landed with 800-1000 lbs. The TRACON guys liked it better that way too. They had one less blip to be concerned about.

A-A-A-A-A-AFFIRM. 10-4. Tell you what, good buddy ... (said in my best West Texas drawl )

We'd often request and 'do' the HI-TAC RW 35 even on CAVU days, just to get "rid" of the controllers and most of the hassle of the DFW TCA and expedite the return to the field.

'Cept I had a near mid-air while on the approach corridor one fine VFR day w/ unreported left-right VFR crossing traffic that was heading for Addison. He was just on the other side of a little white puffy scattered layer @ 1200'.

We missed each other by @ 10'.

Potential bad day. It all happened sooooooooo fast that it would have been over in a flash ... I was O.K. until I dismounted ... then my hands were shakin' ...

 

[nittany03]

They do take up more airspace because they generally start out much farther from the field due to the altitude to get down. I remember from my student days a HI-TACAN in west Texas (might have been Midland, maybe Sweetwater) that started overhead the TACAN (located at the field) and teardropped 3 times over the station during the penetration. Never got more than 10 miles from the field.

This adds fuel to my long-standing argument that those who design approach procedures should be forced to fly them to minimums with compound EPs. Sheesh.

 

[larbear]

When it's case III at the boat (at night and in bad weather) we use a hi tacan of sorts. Ashore, the hi approach books each cover a larger area than the low books do, so you can get away with having less paper in the cockpit. I've never flown one except as punishment.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I did a hi approach in a 60 a few weeks ago, being at 1000 AGL is scary and we had to get on deck quickly

 

[Hozer]

Hi-Tacans are great for kicking students in the nuts after an otherwise good flight. Nothing like blowing a DME arc in the last 2 minutes of flight to tube a ride.
(and no, we don't enjoy it...means more paperwork and a repeat ride)

 

[Rg9]

"Hi Approaches"

For a second, I thought you meant...

HI Approaches

 

[ac2NASTY]

Never flown one yet, hopefully one day I can experience this torturous approach. I may end up eating my own words after hearing some of your comments about it.

Anyways, I'm a air traffic controller at Pax River, MD. We have HI-TACANs here but they hardly ever get used. Pax is a very busy airfield, both local use as well as outside users. The HI approaches start at an altitude above our airspace. We ask the pilots if they can start their approach at 7K (the ceiling of our airspace) instead of 15K to avoid having to coordinate a pointout with Washington Center. I don't have the charts with me but I believe as long as you are above a certain altitude over a certain fix it is considered a HI whatever approach. It seems like more of the outside users, primarily AF F-16, request these approaches than the Navy.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Never flown one yet, hopefully one day I can experience this torturous approach. I may end up eating my own words after hearing some of your comments about it.

Anyways, I'm a air traffic controller at Pax River, MD. We have HI-TACANs here but they hardly ever get used. Pax is a very busy airfield, both local use as well as outside users. The HI approaches start at an altitude above our airspace. We ask the pilots if they can start their approach at 7K (the ceiling of our airspace) instead of 15K to avoid having to coordinate a pointout with Washington Center. I don't have the charts with me but I believe as long as you are above a certain altitude over a certain fix it is considered a HI whatever approach. It seems like more of the outside users, primarily AF F-16, request these approaches than the Navy.

It looks like all the High Approaches, to PAX start at or above 2500' MSL. Check out this site for all your airfield specifics. I'm not sure I call a 2500' start a high approach.
Anyone offhand know what determines a High approach.

-ea6bflyr

 

[ac2NASTY]

^- Sorry for any confussion. I should have explained better what I was trying to say.

An aircraft can be cleared for a HI TACAN Rwy 6 (KNHK) at MODEE (IAF) at 2500' or above. I would assume starting a HI approach that low would take away the purpose of a HI approach. Might as well just shoot a regular TACAN. The chart says 10K or as assigned which allows room for different altitudes to begin the approach.

The difference between the HI and the regular TACAN is the IAF is almost another 10 miles out allowing for more flying miles to descend. We can clear an aircraft for a regular TACAN Rwy 6 over BYNAM at 10K but then there would only be 11 miles to descend. Hope this helps clarify what I first posted.