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Helo vs Airplane Mid-air NYC

C420sailor

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
When I flew it we flew from ISP, skirted the LGA Class B to the north, and then came down the Hudson, between 500 and 1000, changing altitude to avoid the bridges. We requested a Class B transition but that was denied (we figured we'd give it a shot). Then we dropped below 500 and passed by JFK. A very fun flight, but it's just madness in there. The FW traffic up and down the Hudson is bad enough, but the helicopters are just everywhere, zipping in every direction imaginable. If you fly the route solo you have a death wish---you really need two pairs of eyes.
 
skidkid

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
There is a vfr traffic advisory freq where all the various helos broadcast their intentions and positions, it isnt that bad.

There are established reporting points and rules of the road for the Statue of Liberty, the Wallstreet helo pad etc.
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
The madness at NYC/Hudson (flown it in a JetRanger) is not that bad..

Coming into the initial at NQI is worse when you have 5-6 flights of 3-4 aircraft each all coming in for the break, with another 2 sections on the PAR, that can be madness.
 
Morgan81

Morgan81

It's not my lawn. It's OUR lawn.
pilot
Contributor
I've flown the Hudson seven or eight times in 172's. It gets sketchy when people aren't sure what to do, clog up the radio or can't keep an altitude. From about Midtown to the Statue fixed wings are generally as high as possible (corridor is only 1100' so about 800-1000) and the helo guys are very professional and seldom venture above 600-700. That said, I also am surprised this is the first midair. I've heard a close call and some madness on the radio and just decided to bail did a 360 to the South of the Verrazano and just went home. Seems to also get crazy before Yankee games too. A TFR blocks the North end and hour before till an hour after the games so people all try to get a trip in the morning. It's an awesome experiance that hopefully will stay open, but after nine people losing their lives, it's hard to imagine something not changing especially after the Cory Lidel inciedent changed things (not too bad, but you have to talk to LGA approach I think).
 
C420sailor

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
Yeah I think we were chatting with NY Approach.

The problem is that it seems like the helo guys know what they're doing, but you get a lot of light FW guys (myself included) who just do their own thing down the Hudson, squeezing between LGA and EWR. And a lot of them can't keep their scan up as they approach Manhattan.
 
Morgan81

Morgan81

It's not my lawn. It's OUR lawn.
pilot
Contributor
Obviously there is a flaw in this setup so I'm hoping that the FAA does the right thing here. Probably not having a controller take over responsibility since that's the reason it existed to begin with, but maybe mandating specific altitudes for helos and fixed wing. Whatever the outcome, its terrible this happened to begin with but hopefully some good will come of it and maybe will prevent more tragedy.
 
C420sailor

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
After seeing those pictures...I now know why people get those emergency aircraft parachutes (a la Cirrus) installed. Those photos are just sickening.
 
Jim123

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
C420sailor said:
After seeing those pictures...I now know why people get those emergency aircraft parachutes (a la Cirrus) installed. Those photos are just sickening.
Click to expand...

Those things run from $3-20 grand and weigh 20-85 pounds installed. You can spend that kind of money on a lot of different safety equipment or training, but you make a pretty good point...

http://brsparachutes.com/cessna_182_faq.aspx *

Q. How low can I be and still deploy the system?
A. Less than 2 seconds after you pull the deployment handle, the rocket will have pulled chute and risers to their maximum extension. The altitude loss has been shown to be 260-290 feet.


*I didn't spend too much time on the website and a C182 is close enough for the sake of argument.
 
BENDER

BENDER

Member
pilot
Q. How low can I be and still deploy the system?
A. Less than 2 seconds after you pull the deployment handle, the rocket will have pulled chute and risers to their maximum extension. The altitude loss has been shown to be 260-290 feet.


Do you think the chutes would be any good in this situation? Loosing a wing at the root at such a low altitude, spinning out of control, inverted, I ask because I don't know, it just doesn't seem it would be likely it would deploy correctly. ?
 
C420sailor

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
A traditional chute, probably not. But it looks like these use rockets to get the chute out and away from the aircraft, and to inflate it quickly. It could at least slow the rate of descent or right the aircraft before impact.

If it comes out as a streamer, oh well. "You've got the rest of your life to figure it out..."
 
xj220

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
In a situation like that though, I'd try anything. Those pictures are rough to look at.
 
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