Has The Navy Gone Geedunk Crazy?

[A7Dave]

When my wife watches the Pentagon channel, she'll call me to see some tin-pot dictator E-4 with a chest full of "I shopped at the commissary" ribbons. She chokes even more than I do as her father was a Marine in the South Pacific in WWII.

For all the salad bar ribbons given out these days, I can't believe a "Cold War Victory" medal was never created. We lost a lot of guys showing the Commies what for. Lots and lots of guys lost pushing back against them. It WAS a war. We came very close to going hot many times, and nary a ribbon. Bogus I say.

I agree. The Navy has lost it. Pretty soon we'll surpass the Chair Force and will be giving medals out for having sex on the mess decks. And what is all that crap on Army uniforms? I can't even find the rank half the time. Don't even get me started on the blue-cammie "smurf" uniform. WTF? Hell, why don't we give out berets to everyone?

 

[Spekkio]

I agree. The Navy has lost it. Pretty soon we'll surpass the Chair Force and will be giving medals out for having sex on the mess decks. And what is all that crap on Army uniforms?

Well, just think about how long it takes them to pin all of those things in the proper position, and be thankful you don't have to do that for your next CoC or formal dinner event.

 

[Spekkio]

I agree. The Navy has lost it. Pretty soon we'll surpass the Chair Force and will be giving medals out for having sex on the mess decks. And what is all that crap on Army uniforms? I can't even find the rank half the time. Don't even get me started on the blue-cammie "smurf" uniform. WTF? Hell, why don't we give out berets to everyone?

Oh stop with the sky is falling bs. You know which awards mean something and which don't, and so do selection boards. A LCDR with the standard 2-3 NAMs and 1-2 COMs and a slew of campaign ribbons is standard, but a LCDR with MSM is probably a hot-runner.

I have seen senior officers get promoted with and without a lot of awards. Also been privvy to the "well, he deserves this [higher] award but we've already given out our quota this year." Goes back to whoever posted that a well-written FITREP is worth a lot more than a peacetime medal.

 

[Beefalo]

To rustle more people's jimmies:

Is the air medal the equivalent of a NAM in the air community? I have seen many aviators/aircrew sporting multiple air medals and it stands out since it is such a higher award than a NAM or COM.

Since we talked about SW/AW/SS. What about IDW? I cant think of a rate anymore where a warfare pin is not required sans musician rate.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Nope, a NAM is a NAM to be given out as an EOT for not fucking it away during your tour, running the gee dunk like a boss, etc. Air medals have very specific criteria involving green ink in your log book.

 

[nittany03]

Air medals have very specific criteria involving green ink in your log book.

To make it more confusing, strike/flight Air Medals depend on the amount of flights you flew over enemy territory. They are tracked with bronze numbers on the ribbon. Flag officers in the AOR will issue orders saying how many points you get depending on if you crossed the beach, dropped in anger, or were shot back at. Enough points, you get one strike/flight Air Medal. Otherwise you get an entry in your service record with how many points you have, which later tacks on to the next deployment or war you fight in. You never lose the points; they're cumulative. Hypothetically, you can get 16 points as a LTJG over Afghanistan and 4 more points in the opening days of World War III as a squadron CO. Your award citiation would be for 2012 and 2028. All in one medal.

Individual Air Medals are for specific acts of heroism or other aerial badassery. They are tracked with gold numbers on the ribbon and can be awarded with the combat "V."

Two different types of recognition on one medal. It's weird. Cheapening of awards is a concern, but when people bitch about "guys in Korea had to bring a jet back on fire to get an Air Medal, and I got one for just flying OEF," they're probably confusing strike/flight and individual Air Medals.

 

[CommodoreMid]

To make it more confusing, strike/flight Air Medals depend on the amount of flights you flew over enemy territory. They are tracked with bronze numbers on the ribbon. Flag officers in the AOR will issue orders saying how many points you get depending on if you crossed the beach, dropped in anger, or were shot back at. Enough points, you get one strike/flight Air Medal. Otherwise you get an entry in your service record with how many points you have, which later tacks on to the next deployment or war you fight in. You never lose the points; they're cumulative. Hypothetically, you can get 16 points as a LTJG over Afghanistan and 4 more points in the opening days of World War III as a squadron CO. Your award citiation would be for 2012 and 2028. All in one medal.

Individual Air Medals are for specific acts of heroism or other aerial badassery. They are tracked with gold numbers on the ribbon and can be awarded with the combat "V."

Two different types of recognition on one medal. It's weird. Cheapening of awards is a concern, but when people bitch about "guys in Korea had to bring a jet back on fire to get an Air Medal, and I got one for just flying OEF," they're probably confusing strike/flight and individual Air Medals.

You can also do it by number of hours, i.e. 250 hours per medal with 25 hours equalling 2 points. That's how we do it generally in MPRA as we fly long times above not so nice places. I've seen a bunch of people tally air medals that way over multiple deployments.

 

[nittany03]

Nice save. I'd heard of the hourly option, but just that it existed. So rather than talking out my ass, I just omitted it.

 

[BusyBee604]

To make it more confusing, strike/flight Air Medals depend on the amount of flights you flew over enemy territory. They are tracked with bronze numbers on the ribbon. Flag officers in the AOR will issue orders saying how many points you get depending on if you crossed the beach, dropped in anger, or were shot back at. Enough points, you get one strike/flight Air Medal.

Pretty much the same during the VN air war, at that time:
Strike = One mission over enemy territory, expend ordnance and/or fired upon (2 pts.)
Flight = One support mission, unarmed, usually outside of enemy defensive envelope(tanker/EW/ECM, etc.) (1 pt.)

Strike/Flight AM = 20 pts.
Single Strike AM = unusually successful mission, beneath a DFC, but above NMCM (quite rare back then?)

*During Vietnam, Combat "V"s were not authorized by the Navy for DFCs or AMs; however, they were authorized by the USAF... go figure? This inequity was corrected by the Navy Awards Board soon after Vietnam, but was not retroactive. Navy BSs, NMCMs, and NMAMs did not have the Navy V restriction.

**In answer to a previous question, the Air Medal was designed to be the aviation equivalent of the Bronze Star (or vice versa).

***Awards criteria today may be different.
BzB

 

[Renegade One]

For all the salad bar ribbons given out these days, I can't believe a "Cold War Victory" medal was never created.

Proposed and actually designed. Never approved. Probably a good thing.

 

[brownshoe]

When my wife watches the Pentagon channel, she'll call me to see some tin-pot dictator E-4 with a chest full of "I shopped at the commissary" ribbons. She chokes even more than I do as her father was a Marine in the South Pacific in WWII.

No shit... my dad was in the 6th and he received a Purple Heart (that's all). By the way which Division was your wife's pop in? PM me.

 

[Renegade One]

I have seen senior officers get promoted with and without a lot of awards.

In my first squadron, our "sister squadron" CO departed command wearing nothing other than the NDSM. No "End of Tour" for him either (it just wasn't done back then...). He was just doing his job. Not his fault…he was mostly East Coast VF during his formative years, and just never got the opportunity for much of the whole VN thingie.

Two years later, he was my FRS (RAG in the day…) CO when I was on first shore-duty orders. Marvelous, creative, bright motivational and innovative CO. Went on to 2-stars. No one gave two shits about his ribbons...

 

[nittany03]

In my first squadron, our "sister squadron" CO departed command wearing nothing other than the NDSM. No "End of Tour" for him either (it just wasn't done back then...). He was just doing his job. Not his fault…he was mostly East Coast VF during his formative years, and just never got the opportunity for much of the whole VN thingie.

Two years later, he was my FRS (RAG in the day…) CO when I was on first shore-duty orders. Marvelous, creative, bright motivational and innovative CO. Went on to 2-stars. No one gave two shits about his ribbons...

Would that it still worked this way.

My grandfather was in submarines during WWII. Never talked about it . We got his service record after he passed. Turns out his boat ran into an uncharted seamount by the Kuril Islands. After saving the boat, they almost lost it again in a storm on the way to Midway for repairs. No wonder he never talked about the war. There's a letter from his CO recommending him for command before he got out after his 6 years as a LCDR.

After a fleet tour, I have more ribbons than he did.

 

[Renegade One]

To rustle more people's jimmies:

Is the air medal the equivalent of a NAM in the air community? I have seen many aviators/aircrew sporting multiple air medals and it stands out since it is such a higher award than a NAM or COM.

Actually, as memory serves, the Army's (originally) "Bronze Star" was originally created as a "Grunt version" of the AM…AMs were originally awarded based on "exposure"…5 missions…10 missions…I have no idea. But…the foot doggies had nothing similar. I can't quote chapter and verse or give a link to any references….but that's what I recall.

60 days of "sustained combat"…90 days? I dunno. Something like that.

Think Normandy to the crossing of the Rhine. Probably too little...

 

[Renegade One]

Would that it still worked this way.

My grandfather was in submarines during WWII. Never talked about it . We got his service record after he passed. Turns out his boat ran into an uncharted seamount by the Kuril Islands. After saving the boat, they almost lost it again in a storm on the way to Midway for repairs. No wonder he never talked about the war. There's a letter from his CO recommending him for command before he got out after his 6 years as a LCDR.

After a fleet tour, I have more ribbons than he did.

Did he earn a "Combat Patrol Pin"? No shame if the answer is "no", of course, but I think for those in the submarine service who were there…that said far more than little pieces of ribbon.