Graduate Degree Question

[Lucy]

Hello all,

I was hoping to find suggestions and advice concerning Graduate school programs. I am aware that through most of the IDC programs there are opportunities, and requirements, to pursue higher level education. I was curious about the implications on career possibilities.

Looking through the recent O-5 and O-6 selection boards, the selects all seem to have a high number of operational/competitive tours, and their Master’s degrees. Therefore, would it be more career aiding to work on an online program (whether through a school like American Military University or a standard school that offers an online program), or to seek a tour placement through one of the Navy approved/paid programs? I plan to pursue my Master’s, most likely in International Studies or a regional focus field, either way, but was curious if perhaps working on an online program for the first few years of service would be more beneficial so that I could use that “school” tour for other qualifications.

Thanks for any advice,
Lucy

 

[helolumpy]

Promotion and screen boards have demonstrated that the Navy places value on a Master's Degree.
If you can get the Master's on your own time (night school or distance ed) then that will be viewed as a 'plus' on promotion and screen boards. If you get a Master's on the Navy's dime/time then it will be viewed as 'nuetral'.

They Master's is a 'check in the box' as far as the Navy's concerned for promition and selection for the vast majority of personnel. (Of course if you get Master's in Nuclear engineering that will be considered better than an MA in History, but mostly is a check in the box)

Big thing to make sure is that the school is accredited so it's accepted by the Navy. Last think you want to do is pay the money and put in the time to find out that your degree will not be acknowledged by the Navy. If you want to know if it's a recogonized school by the Navy, I would recommend you call the nearest Navy base and speak to someone in the Continuing Ed/College Programs Office. They can tell you what schools may be better than others.

Good luck!

 

[gparks1989]

Promotion and screen boards have demonstrated that the Navy places value on a Master's Degree.
If you can get the Master's on your own time (night school or distance ed) then that will be viewed as a 'plus' on promotion and screen boards. If you get a Master's on the Navy's dime/time then it will be viewed as 'nuetral'.


Good luck!

Random question about that (I know, putting the cart before the horse, but curious nonetheless). If one was to attend an EMBA program at a civilian institution during their shore tour, but it required either every other Friday away from work, or leaving work early on Fridays to complete, where would this fall in the spectrum (i.e. your time or navy's time)? How likely is it that a command would let you do that? Would it affect FITREPs?

 

[Recovering LSO]

When I was a RAG instructor there were ten or so dudes who were enrolled in the Navy's EMBA program. It did become a pain the ass when once a week the schedule became increasingly difficult to write, deconflict, and execute. I'm not sure if there are any FRSs out there anymore that are overflowing with extra bodies so it's probably an issue for everyone. On top of that, there were times when we couldn't take these guys on det because there wasn't a place for them to "attend" class where we were det'ing to.

It's a tough call though. You're on shore duty and the Navy tells you to get an education, but if you do that you're kinda screwing some of the dudes at work - this all depends on where you go for your shore tour. If you go to an FRS and think you're getting "shore duty" then you're probably a bit out of touch anyway I spent 185 days away from home in 2008 as an instructor pilot. I heart El Centro!

I'm on my second sea tour (disassociated tour, if you will) and have knocked out a masters in 13 months, on my own time.

 

[helolumpy]

Random question about that (I know, putting the cart before the horse, but curious nonetheless). If one was to attend an EMBA program at a civilian institution during their shore tour, but it required either every other Friday away from work, or leaving work early on Fridays to complete, where would this fall in the spectrum (i.e. your time or navy's time)? How likely is it that a command would let you do that? Would it affect FITREPs?

Doing a Master Program on the Navy's time would be going to PG school or War College.
Getting an EMBA during your shore tour is getting it on your own time. If the command lets you go, then it's not on the "Navy's time".

 

[gparks1989]

Doing a Master Program on the Navy's time would be going to PG school or War College.
Getting an EMBA during your shore tour is getting it on your own time. If the command lets you go, then it's not on the "Navy's time".

Simple enough...thanks!

 

[HueyHornet75]

Lucy,
Here's my view from the cheap Marine seats. I don't think the MC cares where you get a Master's degree. The fact that you get one is probably a big bonus. I hear rumors that Air Force damn near requires a Master's in order to promote to O-4. I don't even see how that's possible in Marine Corps Aviation, but whatever. So, let's say you want to do it, what are your options?

1) You apply to a Master's Program and try to squeeze it out during your first tour. Do you attend a local school? If you're lucky enough to be located near an accredited program that offers a Master's degree you find valuable, go for it. I'm sure your squadron mates would not appreciate you trying to get an advanced degree when you should be studying NATOPS and tactics manuals...so expect this to backfire on you, winding you on a no-fly, no-qual program.

2) Wait til your shore tour/b-billet. Better way to go, since you probably aren't deploying. The issue is where to go to school? Distance or Local? Accredited? Yes. Just make sure it suits your needs and wants.

3) Keep in mind if you are a Marine, you need to find time to do EWS before the O-4 board.

4) Get a b-billet/shore tour that facilitates getting your Master's paid for AND is part of your job. (ROTC, MOI, NPS, TPS, USNA). Very difficult to get due to the competitive nature, but a great way to go. Some jobs may carry a stigma with it, so tread water lightly in this arena.

5) Apply to a distance program that is flexible and use your GI bill. That's what I'm doing. Colorado State's MBA program is packed full of Air Force Lts and Capts....it boggles my mind how their climate encourages this. In the Marines, they spit on you if they sense you're going to school. (here come the loogies.)

6) Speaking of Marines...most Majors that get their Master's degree do it during Intermediate Level School-War College, Command and Staff College, etc...this is usually a Master's in strategy or something like that. Again, they don't care what it's in, just that you have one. I don't know many O-5 Commanding Officers that got their Master's from anywhere but Command and Staff Resident School. The two I know of got MBAs from Boston University while on the East Coast. I declined this option because I don't know how valuable a Master's in Military Strategy would be post military, but it's probably the easiest way for us.

Either way, expect to spend your spare time getting that degree. Whose money you use will be up to you. What helolumpy says is pretty much the rule. I just figured I'd elaborate a little more.

For those who do have their Master's...how'd you get it?

 

[HooverPilot]

I'm using tuition assistance myself... I'm not sure if it's a Navy only program or not, but I'm saving my GI Bill for bigger & better things. I'm doing a distance learning masters during my DH tour, so it's possible.

 

[RotorHead04]

For those who do have their Master's...how'd you get it?

On the Navy side, I took advantage of the Civilian Institutions / Officer Scholarship Program. Full time active duty orders to an accredited university (with an associated ROTC command) to which you have at least a 50% scholarship. I did it on the front end of my career (immediately following commissioning) during the flight school squeeze of 2004/2005. I'm a few years from the DH screen, but so far it hasn't hurt me ... time will tell, though ...

 

[Flying Toaster]

I hate to open a can of worms, but.... why exactly do they (especially the AF) put so much value on a masters? As someone who is soon to be fresh out of college looking at masters, it seems like being an officer instills the same principles of work/leadership as say an MBA, making said masters somewhat redundant. If I were to take a cynical guess, I'd say it's a lot easier to just check off a box than actually evaluate someones true leadership potential.

 

[Thisguy]

For those who do have their Master's...how'd you get it?

Fully-funded graduate orders to Arizona State...it sounded like a good deal until I found out how painful it was to pound out a two-year engineering degree in one year.

 

[phrogdriver]

The best way to go (in terms of your career) is to attend a resident PME program that awards a master's degree. I think that's pretty close to universally true across the services.

Failing that, I'd recommend a service sponsored program like the non-res EMBA. If your command endorses your application, you're golden. Just don't slack on your day job.

After those, it's all trade-offs. I won't pretend to counsel Navy types on the intricacies of your career paths. For Marines, a master's degree you got part-time does not help you. I got one. I know. If you want one, then do it for yourself, not because you think it's going to help your career. TA is a great deal, but some of the better schools cost more than TA. New GI Bill is good, but you can save that 'till you get out and rock school full time, if you're single. If you're married, many would rather give it to their spouses or children.

I recommend a weekend program or a distance learning program with a flexible schedule, because there will always be occasional late nights in the military, and you don't want to be a slacker at work or fail a class that you paid for.

 

[HueyHornet75]

I think it's a travesty that a Master's that you got on your own, vice a board-selected program is not helpful while in uniform...I'm getting mine so it's there when I get out. Here's to hoping that may help.

 

[FlyinSpy]

I hate to open a can of worms, but.... why exactly do they (especially the AF) put so much value on a masters? As someone who is soon to be fresh out of college looking at masters, it seems like being an officer instills the same principles of work/leadership as say an MBA, making said masters somewhat redundant. If I were to take a cynical guess, I'd say it's a lot easier to just check off a box than actually evaluate someones true leadership potential.

Promotion boards look at hundreds/thousands of records, many of which are going to look essentially identical - water-walking, blue-chip-spud-f@cking #1 EP reincarnations of Nimitz, Halsey, and Nelson. There aren't too many measurable factors that can help break things out for the boards - and literally "having the box checked" for a Masters is one. (Another is having a current picture in your record.) Where you got it, how hard you worked, and what your GPA was matter little. Same thing for JPME; honor grad or anchor man, your JPME box is checked.

The takeaway is that while your overall performance that measures most, it's the gilding the lily steps - like having JPME done, or having a Masters - that can cause you to get the promotion/DH/command screen nod and not someone who (on paper) may look almost identical to you. If you're going to put the time in, make sure you pick a subject that interests you, since it will otherwise be a long slog.

 

[Lucy]

Thank you everyone for the continued insight. It is really helpful.

Just as an update, I start my MA with American Military University in International Relations and Conflict Studies with an emphasis in Security and Comparison Issues-Thesis Option in July. At this point, I will be taking 2-3 classes over the summer, and hopefully once I get an OCS date, I will get a longer term schedule figured out. Figure I will either complete/come close to finishing it prior to OCS (not too hard if the average 6-12 wait after FS is still happening), or have a couple classes to use towards transfer at a later date.

Again thanks all!
Lucy