Gloves

[dilbert123]

A question for all you current Airedales from an old geezer (ex-Airedale). This question is not just for me but a group of old buddies all around the nation who still keep in contact. We all flew in the 60's and 70's.

One thing we all have noticed and have discussed from videos showing launches and in-flight maneuvers is the absence of flight gloves. During our day, admittedly long ago, this would have been a serious safety violation and you could be really dinged for not wearing gloves while flying. Something must have changed. I can't imagine anyone risking being videoed without gloves if they were required today.

Any idea why the change? Was it decided that gloves weren't that important?

Thanks for any replies.

 

[gotta_fly]

It depends on the airframe but I know in the E-6B most people don't wear them unless they're flying behind the tanker since they help with the grip. With all of the button-pressing and electronic gizmos, the gloves can be kind of a hindrance to normal operations. I know it's just a trainer, but this was the case with the T-44 as well; gloves weren't worn normally, just readily available in case of fire.

 

[helolumpy]

First off the Safety Center would freak if they thought that people were advocating for flight without gloves. I was at a 3710 conference when that topic came up. 3710 used to have a rule that allowed for gloves to be removed during overwater and low-level flights. That rule was removed by the Safety Center and my squadron asked to have it reinstated. Arguments ensued...

Today, gloves are always required IAW 3710. That being said, most pilots and aircraft, in my expirience, do not wear them regularly.
Some say they interfere with the button mashing that has increased with the addition to more computers into the cockpits.
Some claim they can't 'feel the aircraft' through the leather.
Some had gloves fall apart or lost them and never got around to getting another pair.
Some claim that it could interfere with operation of their harness in the event of a ditching since the gloves seem to get slippery when they get wet.
I've seen lots of helo bubbas wear gloves during prelfight checks to avoid getting grease all over their hands to then take their gloves off once they strap into the helo. (I'm in this group)
Some pilots will only wear them during their NATOPS check since it's something that the UNI's always seem to want to 'ding' people on.

That being said, unless you have a front office that is going to harp on it, it's pretty much the individuals choice as to whether they want to wear gloves or not. Most folks in my expirience do not wear gloves when they fly.

 

[NavAir42]

In P-3s, at least around my squadron it's hit or miss. Some guys wear gloves all the time when in the seat. Some wear them during takeoff and landing. Some, myself included, pretty much never wear gloves. I have them in my left leg pocket in case anything bursts into flames, otherwise they stay there. I also have a pair of mechanics gloves I wear for pre/post flight. They hold up a little better against the grease, dirt, and oil.

Our NATOPs allows them to be waived by the Plane Commander for the flight station which caused something of a commotion with a previous skipper. He was a huge proponet of wearing gloves for takeoff and landing. Well on a repo while I was a new-ish 3P, the PPC waived them for the flight station. To the skippers credit he didn't say anything until we were done with the departure before asking why all three of us didn't put them on. The PPC told him that NATOPs allowed to waive them. The CO didn't believe him and asked us to prove it. It took a couple minutes to find the chapter and verse, but as soon as we did the skipper just shrugged and said, "learn something new every day." He didn't bother us about it after that.

 

[FlyBoyd]

A little cut and paste from here...
http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/03000%20Naval%20Operations%20and%20Readiness/03-700%20Flight%20and%20Air%20Space%20Support%20Services/3710.7U.pdf​

8.2.1 Aircrew Personal Protective Equipment Requirements​

8.2.1.1 Aircrew​

Note​

Items below marked

* may be omitted by flight

personnel flying in fixed-wing cargo/transport
class aircraft if such flight does not involve
carrier operations and omission is approved by
the commanding officer.​

c. *Fire-resistant (aramid) flight gloves.

​

​

​

 

[NightVisionPen]

They are still technically required. Just like you are technically required to be on oxygen with your mask on from start up to shut down in a jet. Does everyone do that too? Not really. Some guys wear the mask from take off to shut down. Some guys will pop the mask off during transit where cabin pressure is 8k or less. With the gloves, some guys will wear them, but cut a couple of fingertips off to help with button pushing and page turning. All technically against the rules though.

 

[HuggyU2]

My perception is that it's a "cultural" thing. I see it all time when I deal with Navy/Marine aviators, but very, very rare in the USAF... to include USAF pilots that do a lot of "button pushing". They don't have a switchology problem with gloves on, probably the way that Dilbert123 and his peers didn't have a problem in their era. And try flying and button pushing with space suit gloves before you try to convince me this is really an issue.

Don't misunderstand me: I really don't care what you do. Personally, I use them... if I don't, I always end up cutting myself on a piece of safety wire, or some sharp edge in the cockpit.

Bottom line: cultural,... just like whether or not to cut off the pen flap on a flight suit.

 

[SWACQ]

I can't believe this is prevalent enough to even be a topic of discussion. I never once flew without gloves on in the Hornet. I never had a problem with switchology or button pushing because of gloves. I had a problem with switchology or button pushing due to being a switchpig or otherwise being an idiot, but it was never the glove's fault.

I know of a couple guys who punched out without gloves on, and got burns or glass shards on their hands, one was a Hornet that was coming apart after a midair and the dude literally reached down through the flames to grab the handle, and the other was a Harrier which with the det cord on the canopy covered the dude in shattered glass.

I remember doing crew coordination briefs and talking about how even though we have immediate action items, nothing really happens that quick that you need to throw switches instantly, point being no fast hands in the cockpit, work through the issue as a crew. Don't recall ever discussing "give me time to put my gloves on..."

 

[dilbert123]

Very interesting, guys, thanks for the input. As far as pushing buttons, I remember an article in "Approach", the Navy's safety magazine (is it still published?) about an A-6 being launched off a carrier and the BN beside the pilot realizes that something is dreadfully wrong. The pilot is frozen, can't move, so he hits him to break his grip on the stick. It turns out that the trim tab button had somehow come off and his bare finger was directly on a live wire. I remember at the time the Air Force's safety magazine picked up the article and republished it as a reminder that gloves are important in the cockpit.

I had a Marine buddy who was just setting down into a firefight in 'Nam when his helo took a direct hit from a mortar. He was the only one to get out. It was the unofficial custom in his squadron, because of the high heat and humidity, to fly with no gloves and flight suit sleeves rolled up to the elbow. He was badly burned from the elbow down, nothing but scars, and in addition to a very painful recovery that lasted months he had to withstand withdrawal from painkillers. He was the biggest champion of Nomex, both flightsuit and gloves, of anyone I've ever met, a walking safety campaign. He tried to stay in but his scars were such that he no longer had the reach with his arms and was released on a disability.

I am not criticizing anyone, just a watcher from the side these days. You guys stay safe out there.

 

[SteveG75]

I had a buddy who was badly burned when his Intruder caught fire while hot refueling on deck. The worst areas where were his gloves had the fingers cut off.

I had my gloves on when this jet caught on fire and I always wore them since.

 

[MIDNJAC]

There were some guys in the jet VT's who didn't wear them (IP types), but it seems like pretty much everyone at the RAG tends to wear them.

 

[C420sailor]

I wear them all the time. I'm so used to them that it feels weird to even fly the sim without them (so I wear them in the sim too). Turning pages sucks, but I've seen enough badly burned people in my life to not want to be one of them.

 

[Schnugg]

I always wore mine. I ordered them a bit tight and they fit real well.

 

[nittany03]

WileyX Orions.

Best. Flight gloves. EVER.

They also have these if you just can't stand having fingers not cut out. Both are NAVAIR approved.

 

[incubus852]

That second pair with the fingers cut out are the default being ordered at 101. Of course, it takes several years to ever get anything here, but nonetheless...