Gaza

[Fog]

Re Boundaries & 'other issues':

Yes, there's this problem of 7MM Jews living in the Mideast. Last time I looked. the Sinai Desert is this big "Outback" right next to Israel. Why doesn't Egypt (or any of several other Arab countries) donate a few thousand square miles for a Palestinian state? (answer: they don't really give a sh*t about them & just use them to try to kill Jews). The Jews have been in the Mideast since the start of recorded history and arguably may have been its first inhabitants. They have an older & more valid claim to the land, IMHO, than a group of arabs who've never had a nation named after them.

 

[Brett327]

FOG. you're not really answering the question at hand. There's already an established concept as to what a Palestinian state would look like, so suggesting they move to Egypt isn't particularly useful. When you said "give them more," what did you mean, and what is the overwhelming risk you seem to want to assert in letting them try to manage what they already essentially have under the concept of bonifide statehood?

 

[Fog]

Then you answer the question of what "more" means, Brett. To me, it means Israel has to give up part of its territory to what would undoubtedly be a hostile neighbor state, Palestine, that harbors terrorists smuggling weapons from Iran (and others) that will be used against Israel. You always have to get the last word, which I now graciously concede to you.

 

[Brett327]

FOG, if you're going to answer a question with a question, then just bow out of the discussion. We've already established what a Palestinian state would look like. This isn't me coming out of left field with this idea - it's what the diplomats and statesmen are talking about. The PA already controls that space (semi-autonomously). You've mad a claim that going the next step and calling it a state would bring great harm compared with the status quo. Please justify your answer (show your work).

 

[LFCFan]

If Hamas put down their arms and put that effort into self government and investment they would live in peace forever. Israel would be no threat. You can't say the same for an Israeli self disarmament. If Israel laid down every arm it would be over run and no Palestinian would allow Jews to live peaceably in the new Palestine, like Arab-Israelis do in Israel today. You can debate a solution, but there is no doubt who the agaggressors are and who is reasonable about a peace. Arafat had a state and he walked away becauses Israel would continue to exist.

You make a fair point about the use of military force, but Israel would keep trying to pop up new settlements in Palestinian territory, and the violence would continue. The only way that could be stopped is a two state solution.

 

[SkywardET]

There are many more contentious issues in play other than where the boundaries will be.

Can you elaborate? Who is blocking this agreed-to compromise and why are they blocking it?

 

[Flash]

Can you elaborate? Who is blocking this agreed-to compromise and why are they blocking it?

The 'right to return' and related compensation as well as the capital of 'Palestine' being in Jerusalem, both of which have taken on outsized importance amongst many 'ordinary' Palestinians, are pretty contentious issues. There is also the basic question of how much actual control over their affairs the Palestinians will have, while nominally independent in several aspects Israel still has significant control over the Palestinian Authority to include their borders, customs and even some tax collections. Then there are the settlements in the West Bank, both 'official' and unofficial........and the list goes on.

 

[LFCFan]

New settlements authorized. The plot thickens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391

 

[BACONATOR]

Dennis Prager summarizes this whole conflict in 6 short minutes for those who are ignorant.

 

[Brett327]

Not a particularly objective summary, although it does provide some insight into the more hawkish Israeli position. If you're relying solely on this piece for your understanding of the Arab-Israeli conflict, you're doing yourself a disservice.

 

[BACONATOR]

Not a particularly objective summary, although it does provide some insight into the more hawkish Israeli position. If you're relying solely on this piece for your understanding of the Arab-Israeli conflict, you're doing yourself a disservice.

I'm aware of the slant, but I think it provides a fair slant to temper the extremely anti-Israel sentiment and opposing slant you'll find on the likes of "news" media like CNN.

 

[Renegade One]

Not a particularly objective summary, although it does provide some insight into the more hawkish Israeli position. If you're relying solely on this piece for your understanding of the Arab-Israeli conflict, you're doing yourself a disservice.

But...is it/he wrong? I'm willing to be educated...although I realize this may not actually be the best place...either.

 

[Brett327]

We're talking about gray areas. If everything was absolute, cut and dried, things would be a lot simpler. Anyone who has ever dealt with a conflict knows that there are always two sides to every story. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[jmcquate]

Brett’s right, there are some messy grey areas but there are some big black and white areas. The legitimacy of the UN’s creation of the state if Israel is a moot point, it’s there, and it’s not going away unless it’s destroyed. If the Palestinians want a State, they can have on at any time (I know, Jerusalem, right of return ect……) but those things can be worked out over time if both sides want to but I don’t think the Palestinians want to. Every time they have been given almost what they demand coming out with the better of what was put on the table they add another demand at the last minute to derail the deal.

The question one has to ask themselves is whether the Palestinians (and Iranians) want a Palestinian state, or the destruction of Israel. I believe history has shown that it’s the latter. Maybe that will change over time and an ever growing body count.

 

[Brett327]

Great points, per usual. A lot if people can't appreciate the difference between understanding the Palestinian perspective and agreeing with it. There is value in seeing both sides of an argument.