FRS's and Possible Duty Stations

[HeyJoe]

maybe when you have more time in the fleet than you do in the training command you can call me & my beloved F/A-18C junior varsity

it's funny, and sad, that Boeing & NAVAIR took the slowest 4th Gen fighter in the world and made it slower. great avionics though, and it's new, a part me wishes the Corps would have bought it as a stop-gap until the even slower & shorter legged F-35B comes online

S/F

Your wish may come true. USMC threw down their gauntlet over NOT wanting the F/A-18E/F and going for the F-35B, but the issue of what will replace the Prowler in USMC service is an open question and with the USMC-USN TACAIR integration bringing both services into each other's domains more than ever....I think the Growler (or "Shocker" if some AW posters have their way) may end up with USMC painted on its fuselage at some point.

 

[Brett327]

Your wish may come true. USMC threw down their gauntlet over NOT wanting the F/A-18E/F and going for the F-35B, but the issue of what will replace the Prowler in USMC service is an open question and with the USMC-USN TACAIR integration bringing both services into each other's domains more than ever....I think the Growler (or "Shocker" if some AW posters have their way) may end up with USMC painted on its fuselage at some point.

This is all conjecture, but my personal opinion is that the Marines should and are going to get out of the business of EA. With the Prowlers being the High Value/Low Density national assets that they are, the Marines don't even really control their Prowler squadrons any more and deployment sites are dictated by the overall needs of the Navy. In keeping with their customarily tight purse strings, they should just give up that role and spend their money on other things. If there is a need for SEAD/EA, higher authority will task the available assets as necessary.

Brett

 

[HeyJoe]

This is all conjecture, but my personal opinion is that the Marines should and are going to get out of the business of EA. With the Prowlers being the High Value/Low Density national assets that they are, the Marines don't even really control their Prowler squadrons any more and deployment sites are dictated by the overall needs of the Navy. In keeping with their customarily tight purse strings, they should just give up that role and spend their money on other things. If there is a need for SEAD/EA, higher authority will task the available assets as necessary.

Brett

That is also a likely outcome although I don't agree "Needs of the Navy" drive where USMC Prowler units are deployed. CNO and CMC are co-equal memebrs of JCS and have their own planners suggesting where units go. TACAIR integration handshake was a co-equal endeavor not "Needs of Navy" dictating to HQMC or MAWs. Combatant Commanders have much larger influence then services, which have been relegated to "force provider" role since Goldwater-Nichols. This will be interesting to watch. USAF lost EA (and their EF-111s) to USN-USMC hence the demand on the Prowler as a HD/LD asset. They are proposing a EA-52 so maybe they'll get back in the business again.

Note: all USMC aircraft are bought with "blue" dollars out of OPNAV N78 so giving up a mission doesn't mean you have those dollars to spend on something else (USMC would have the billets and other O&M savings though).

 

[airwinger]

According to a rumor I heard(O-6 prowler pilot just out of the pentagon) is that deputy commandant aviation will be making the call as to what the future of Marine EA is.

 

[HeyJoe]

That's the way it works. DC Air (LTGEN Castellaw) is responsible for the Marine Corps Aviation Campaign Plan. The lastest version(http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/AVN/Marine_Aviation/Documents/AVPLAN%20April%202005.pdf). includes a EA-JSF study, but no placeholders for a "AEA". LTGEN Hough (former PEO JSF) was outgoing DC Air who signed off on the above plan so remains to be seen where the new DC Air wants to go. Note: all USMC aircraft are bought with Navy "Blue" dollars so close coordination with OPNAV N78 is required (DC Air is dual-hatted as N78M). It's a "zero-sum" game (if you haven't heard that term, get used to it). The rub over a JSF variant will be the R&D bill and whether a single place aircraft can do the job (still plenty of wrinkled noses over Growler being only two place cockpit). BTW, DC Air will likely confer with ACMC over a big decison like this in his role as head of MROC (a major investment entails a "requirement", which means ACMC plays as well) even though DC Air has lead to make the proposal/plan.

 

[Brett327]

That's the way it works. DC Air (LTGEN Castellaw) is responsible for the Marine Corps Aviation Campaign Plan. The lastest version(http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/AVN/Marine_Aviation/Documents/AVPLAN%20April%202005.pdf). includes a EA-JSF study, but no placeholders for a "AEA". LTGEN Hough (former PEO JSF) was outgoing DC Air who signed off on the above plan so remains to be seen where the new DC Air wants to go. Note: all USMC aircraft are bought with Navy "Blue" dollars so close coordination with OPNAV N78 is required (DC Air is dual-hatted as N78M). It's a "zero-sum" game (if you haven't heard that term, get used to it). The rub over a JSF variant will be the R&D bill and whether a single place aircraft can do the job (still plenty of wrinkled noses over Growler being only two place cockpit). BTW, DC Air will likely confer with ACMC over a big decison like this in his role as head of MROC (a major investment entails a "requirement", which means ACMC plays as well) even though DC Air has lead to make the proposal/plan.

I know there are a lot of fingers in the pie, but it would seem ridiculous to have to R & D a whole new (single seat???)EA platform just so the Marines can have an organic EA capability that they're not going to have the freedom to use like they want anyway (sorry boys, I know you wanted to use these EA-35s with your MAGTF, but the President says the USAF needs some SEAD support over here). Call me a cynic, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Brett

 

[Rainman]

What excellent logic!! Gee, an F-14 pilot SHOULD be angry about going to F/A-18Fs because F/A-18Cs (a totally unrelated platform, unmentioned in your original post, but nevermind... let's just switch topics for no reason whatsoever) can 'spank' a Rhino...

I can't really help you if you don't get it. It's that the Tomcat crew went from a formidable A/A platform. A few of them are bitter--deer in the headlights in a debrief when the "JV guys" kill remove them after 180 degrees of turn. . . .Wait a minute. Wasn't this platform suppose to be an improvement?

 

[TurnandBurn55]

A4s "spanking" F-16's??!!

"LMAO" ??? In your dreams, right ?? Boy, what a joke, yes ??? Some posters on this website are so full of it, aren't they ?? ..... I hear "certain posters here" even claim to have DONE IT !!!

LMAO, too .....

A4s..

I'm not laughing at you, and I wrote the post fully believing that it's the truth (I have no doubt that a Viper will choke in a flat scissors)...

I wrote "LMAO" at the sheer ridiculousness that just because one aircraft can beat another means that the beaten aircraft is useless/worthless/nobody should fly it...

Is a Rhino worthless because a Charlie has beaten it? Ridiculous

Is a Viper worthless because an A-4 can beat it? Equally ridiculous

That's all I'm saying...

 

[Rainman]

and really .. . it was really never about the platforms (Okay, well gotta defend the JV commentary); more about the attitudes. I was curious to see some of the takes from Rhino guys about their F-14 brothers.

 

[A4sForever]

A4s..

I'm not laughing at you, ....That's all I'm saying...

If you're NOT --- you will be the first one for quite some time. But actually, yeah, I know .... I was just giving you back some good-natured sh!t. Ready Room banter never plays too well on the web, I am discovering ..... voice inflection and all of that. Now come over here and sit on my lap.

And besides ..........All I am saying is ..... give peace a chance...... cheers and fly safe.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Well I gave you takes from Tomcat guys turned Rhino guys... sorry you didn't like it... but as UINavy alluded to... the name of the game is improving your strike capability. Not BFM. Unless you're in the USAF bizarro-world where $250M is a worthwhile expendenture on a plane that's limited to two (2) 1,000 pounders.

That being said, if we do go air-to-air, the slight decrease in BFM ability (vice the Hornet, not the Tomcat as you originally alleged) will be more than compensated for in BVR what with phased-array radar, reduced RCS, and an absolute sh!tton more expendables.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

If you're NOT --- you will be the first one for quite some time. But actually, yeah, I know .... I was just giving you back some good-natured sh!t. Ready Room banter never plays too well on the web, I am discovering ..... voice inflection and all of that. Now come over here and sit on my lap.

And besides ..........All I am saying is ..... give peace a chance...... cheers and fly safe.

Sorry dude

Don't want to be coming across as TOO much of an a$$hole... there's a line you're SUPPOSED to cross and a line you're not... just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming across as a toolbag (which I may well be, but I can't help that!)

I'll take a pass on the lap-sitting though...

 

[eddie]

I'll take a pass on the lap-sitting though...

Resident Santa...

 

[Punk]

Resident Santa...

I think he was Santa's IP

 

[eddie]

I think he was Santa's IP

Is Rudolph's nose an OPSEC nono? Old school FLIR...