Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects

[skidkid]

If all you ever do is protect yourself and not project power what good are you again?

My favorite is the LHD exercises where they pretend to be surface combatants, I always found it humorous that the L class ships big combat evaluations never involved how quickly they could launch aircraft or LCACs and LCUs-you know that stuff that they actually exist to do.

 

[mmx1]

If all you ever do is protect yourself and not project power what god are you again?

freudian typo?

 

[nittany03]

I thought that was what CWIS, SWOs, and damage control parties were for.

Brett

Zing . . .

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I thought that was what CWIS, SWOs, and damage control parties were for.

Brett

All three are pretty much worthless unless you guys fail to do your job. Bottom line....we'd rather you guys get swacked than us.

 

[Brett327]

All three are pretty much worthless unless you guys fail to do your job. Bottom line....we'd rather you guys get swacked than us.

Again, I thought that's what FFG picket ships were for. They're not called missile sponges for nothing.

Brett

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Again, I thought that's what FFG picket ships were for. They're not called missile sponges for nothing.

Brett

FFG as a picket ship??

 

[Brett327]

FFG as a picket ship??

Hey man, that's just what I heard. I've only set foot on a small boy when it was firmly tied up to the pier.

Brett

 

[Catmando]

On a much more serious note, regarding the state of ACM/Air Combat……

We recently lost a giant - Captain Frank Ault, USN - who flew west on August 20.

While Capt. Ault had a long and successful career, he will be best remembered for his seminal "Ault Report" which forever changed Naval Air Warfare (and later even the Air Force's). Indeed, it was one of the over 200 recommendations contained in the Ault Report that directly led to the establishment of the Naval Fighter Weapons School, (TopGun).

His immense contribution is documented in Robert Wilcox's, "Scream of Eagles." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743497244/alert5-20/102-3853103-3483316?creative=327641&camp=14573&adid=1BBX6THRAWJQPDGCAZMC&link_code=as1

Although I never had the honor of meeting the man, he was a hero to all of us of that era, and the Ault Report was the most important document of its time. My condolences to his family and friends. More details, and Sept. 8 memorial service information at blackfive:

[url]http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/08/capt_frank_ault.html[/URL]

 

[Gatordev]

They're not called missile sponges for nothing.

Brett

Or torpedo magnets.

 

[scoober78]

FFG as a picket ship??

Yeah...not so much. Think what you are looking for is a "screen" ship. I'm pretty sure that a picket ship is used for tracking weapons etc...

BTW...I'm all at once glad I started this thread and sad that I have no idea what half of you are saying...

Oh well...one bite at a time...

 

[Goober]

Just wait until Airwing Fallon - your head will explode.

Brett

My favorite was always the "Single Group That Turns Into The Exploding Canteloupe." Always a good one to see the new guys get smacked w/ that one.

 

[Brett327]

My favorite was always the "Single Group That Turns Into The Exploding Canteloupe." Always a good one to see the new guys get smacked w/ that one.

That's a lovely image.

Brett

 

[invertedflyer]

Do Marine squadrons have the opportunity to go out to Fallon or participate in Red Flag?

 

[Huggy Bear]

The widom of the internet forums seem to espouse that because missiles are so deadly and self-guiding pilots have it much easier than the gunfighters of old. That could not be farther from the truth. The bad guys have the same damn missiles we do. With the missiles we have now days - literally a split second error or delay at the merge could mean the difference between who makes it home. Also, we have so much more information to process in much less time than they ever did. Some will say our radars and the like make it easy for us now days. That again is a misconception. We almost have sensory overload these days, sensors can lie, and they can distract you. Running the radar properly can be a lot tougher than many people think. It's not like an X-box game.

I have all the respect in the world for the gunnery skills of the old-timers. Without my BATR cue I'm hopeless. But to quote my grandfather (a ww2 B-24 pilot) "I would not even be able to start your plane". He is exaggerating of course (a radial is much tougher than our engines) but his point about the complexity of modern war was valid.

 

[Huggy Bear]

Do Marine squadrons have the opportunity to go out to Fallon or participate in Red Flag?

Unless the marines are part of a Navy Air Wing they do not normally go to fallon. They have their own marine work up dets.