F18 HARM shooters on 1986 Libya Raid?

[Delta7]

I have a question: I've had two former Navy guys I’ve flown with over the past couple of months (AA 737) question the assertion in my novel, Delta 7's first chapter that there were F-18s involved in the 1986 Libya raid. They thought the jet was not yet in active service in that year.

However, if memory serves, I thought the Hornet was on one of its first cruises when the attack occurred and that they did indeed participate as HARM shooters. I don’t remember if the squadron flew off Coral Sea or America.

Anyone out there know the truth?

Thanks,
John

 

[FLYTPAY]

I have a question: I've had two former Navy guys I’ve flown with over the past couple of months (AA 737) question the assertion in my novel, Delta 7's first chapter that there were F-18s involved in the 1986 Libya raid. They thought the jet was not yet in active service in that year.

However, if memory serves, I thought the Hornet was on one of its first cruises when the attack occurred and that they did indeed participate as HARM shooters. I don’t remember if the squadron flew off Coral Sea or America.

Anyone out there know the truth?

Thanks,
John

John, seems like an astute author and Air Force officer would be able to figure this out on his own. I think you are just trying to push your book. Your bio says you flew the F-111 and B-52 and that you were a fighter pilot(Come on John, I can tell this is an attempt at a fictional autobiography). Is the F-111 a fighter? Can someone get the Troll Spray?
http://www.delta7book.com/author.htm
http://www.delta7book.com/plot.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_El_Dorado_Canyon
Benghazi air defense network was attacked by 6 F/A-18's launching 20 HARM. Tripoli air defense network was attacked by 6 A-7's launching 16 HARM. I hope you put me in there as a source. For someone who claims to have been there, you apparently were not concerned with the IADS functioning at Millertime.

 

[Lobster]

You could have googled this and found out if it was true or not...and if you're questioning the validity of your own work why was is published?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Is the F-111 a fighter?

To the Air Force, anyone flying a pointy nose is a fighter pilot. I know a few F-111 guys who flew both the FB-111 and EF-111, they call themselves fighter pilots too.

 

[Delta7]

Wow! Tough audience.

Reminds me of the sign we were supposed to get outside our squadron at the 'Heath: "Check your slack at the door, because none will be offered here!"

1. Guilty as charged on trying to plug my book (at least you found my website :icon_wink). The truth is, I'm advertizing with Google and I just got a report today saying that my ads had shown up on this site. Since I'd never heard of it, I thought I'd take a look. I started off telling a joke, but deleted it when I thought it might be a bit offensive for a first post.

2. The book is a work of fiction and autobiograhical only in the sense that I wrote about what I know. In fact, only the first chapter is about military flying. Most of the rest is about Colombia and drug trafficking. I was certainly not questioning its validity.

3. Yes, I could have Googled to confirm what I already knew. Frankly, what I "knew" 22 years ago, is now pretty distant in my memory. Too many adult beverages, perhaps. Just thought I might strike up a conversation about the raid. Guess that might not have been a good idea.

4. The old "is an F111 pilot a fighter pilot canard." No, the Vark is not reeeally a fighter in most respects... except speed. I've heard that line many times from many Navy guys over the years (not to mention a few AF F15/16 guys). Back in the day, I'd puff up my chest and defend myself. Now, I don't really give a sh*t, the AF put an "F" in front of it so that's good enough for me. And it was a long time ago. I'm certainly no longer one now... retired in '97. Yanking gear on a 73 and laying over in the Caribbean is OK for an old fart like me.

Thanks for the reference to the 20 HARMs for Bengazi, FLYTPAY, I thought they were over by Tripoli too.

Oh well, Troll spray away, if you must!

PS. One thing's for sure, you guys are pretty fast on the replies!

Quick edit: Didn't see the last part of FLYTPAY's post. I claim only to have been at Lakenheath flying F111s. I wasn't on the raid, got there in November of 85. Raid was in April, i was still getting theater indoc and flight lead upgrade. And how they picked the crews (especially when the size of the attack package grew exponentially at the last minute) is a very long story. As was the use of 2000 versus 500 pound GBUs due to "political considerations." as was flying around France and Spain. etc. etc. You got me, WTF is IADS, Integrated Air Defense System?

 

[Hozer]

hhhmmmmm.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I just looked at the bio link. I know this guy! I worked with him at Southcom J5 Policy. He was one of the staff officers (along with a Navy EA-6B NFO) that were tasked with coming up with a Columbia policy when Gen. Wilhelm decided we needed to do more (the beginnings of the ongoing Plan Columbia as I think they are calling it).

 

[a-6intruder]

I started off telling a joke, but deleted it when I thought it might be a bit offensive for a first post.

Having seen your first post prior to your wise decision to remove it, I've got news for you, it was offensive regardless of whether it was a first post or 1000th post.

Not saying it was without humor, but it was offensive. Would you have walked into a squadron party and told that joke in front of squadron mates (both sexes), wives, and others who you might know or not know? Because that's essentially what you did as many spouses, parents, wanna-be's and others look to this site for information and guidance.

Don't want the new guys who haven't yet got enough experience to filter gouge from "bad idea" thinking it is acceptable to offer sexist humor in the Ready Room, because chances are he / she will get squashed like a grape.

Welcome and I look forward to reading your book.

 

[Delta7]

I just looked at the bio link. I know this guy! I worked with him at Southcom J5 Policy. He was one of the staff officers (along with a Navy EA-6B NFO) that were tasked with coming up with a Columbia policy when Gen. Wilhelm decided we needed to do more (the beginnings of the ongoing Plan Columbia as I think they are calling it).

HAL Pilot,

I remember very well... and how we both so enjoyed those Friday Command Runs!

I'll send a private response shortly.

Cheers,
John

 

[Delta7]

A-6,

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

Before making that first post last night, I did a quick review of the board, saw the Republican/Democrat joke and couple of un-edited cuss words in several posts and contributed the joke without too much consideration of a wider audience. Almost immediately (but obviously not soon enough) I started to have misgivings.

To those who read that post in the hour or so it was viewable before it was deleted and were offended, please accept my sincere apologies.

John

 

[A4sForever]

Wow! Tough audience..... Reminds me of the sign we were supposed to get outside our squadron at the 'Heath: "Check your slack at the door, because none will be offered here!".....

Your AA -37 former Navy friends are incorrect. After years of yeoman work in WestPac, the CORAL MARU's AirWing was involved in Operation El Dorado Canyon and her F-18's pulled the trigger, if memory serves. That represented the first combat employment of the then-new F/A-18.

You should choose better friends when seeking advice and counsel ....

I fought the -18, A-4 Adversary-style, @ Lemoore & Miramar in '84 or '85 and against the Canadians @ Cold Lake in the same time frame.

And just to get you started "right" in NAVAIR: the phrase is "THERE'S NO SLACK IN ATTACK" .... please feel free to modify as necessary with "light/medium/or heavy" when required ...

"Tough audience"?? You ain't seen nuthin' yet ....

*sigh* .... AF jockeys.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I always thought the F-111/EF-111 was a cool platform (save the Navy application of course). Care to share any sea/land stories?

 

[Renegade One]

A-4's is correct, of course. Six F/A-18's carrying a total of 4 SHRIKEs and 20 HARMs were fragged against the Benghazi air defense network. All missiles were expended during the course of the strike. The Tripoli air defense network was covered by a similarly sized package of six A-7E's carrying 6/16 or the above missiles. All expended as well.

V/R, Spike

 

[Delta7]

A4sForever,

Thanks for the info. I really didn’t remember whether the Hornets flew off America or Coral Sea (or perhaps even both). And I wasn’t seeking advice, I was responding to a question two former Navy guys have had about whether the -18 was in service in 1986. One was a Tomcat pilot, the other… I think was a Hornet guy.

You beat me in the battle of acronyms… what’s a “MARU?” I did a quick Google search and couldn’t find it.

“No slack in attack…” that got me thinking about the earlier comments about who’s really a “fighter pilot.” Now I remember that the Navy distinguishes between fighter and attack pilots. In my 20-year AF career, I never once heard anyone called an “attack pilot.” A-10 pilots, for example, were always considered fighter pilots in the AF. Not right or wrong, just a different culture.

I find the whole pecking order between air-to-air, air-to-mud, bomber, tanker and transport piloting kinda quaint now after so many years (10-plus) of airline flying. From my current perspective, I guess it’d be like a brain surgeon looking down a cardiologist (or even better, a proctologist) and insisting he’s not a real doctor. J

Just curious… (really, no subtle Squid-bashing)… what would be “heavy attack” for the Navy? I’d guess A4 = light and A6/F14 = medium. But I can’t think of a Navy “heavy” off the top of my cranium.

Cheers,
John

 

[OUSOONER]

A4sForever,
Thanks for the info. I really didn’t remember whether the Hornets flew of America or Coral Sea (or perhaps even both). And I wasn’t seeking advice, I was responding to a question two former Navy guys have had about whether the -18 was in service in 1986. One was a Tomcat pilot, the other… I think was a Hornet guy.
You beat me in the battle of acronyms… what’s a “MARU?” I did a quick Google search and couldn’t find it.
“No slack in attack…” that got me thinking about the earlier comments about who’s really a “fighter pilot.” Now I remember that the Navy distinguishes between fighter and attack pilots. In my 20-year AF career, I never once heard anyone called an “attack pilot.” A-10 pilots, for example, were always considered fighter pilots in the AF. Not right or wrong, just a different culture.
I find the whole pecking order between air-to-air, air-to-mud, bomber, tanker and transport piloting kinda quaint now after so many years (10-plus) of airline flying. From my current perspective, I guess it’d be like a brain surgeon looking down a cardiologist (or even better, a proctologist) and insisting he’s not a real doctor. J
Just curious… (really, no subtle Squid-bashing)… what would be “heavy attack” for the Navy? I’d guess A4 = light and A6/F14 = medium. But I can’t think of a Navy “heavy” off the top of my cranium.
Cheers,
John

MARU = Sea...So Coral Maru = Coral Sea.. just like all the Japanese merchant fleet. "blah blah Maru"...during WW2 the entire merchant fleet of Japanese Maru's returned to the bottom of their namesake...