F/A-18E vs F... benefits of one over the other?

[EODDave]

I def don't claim to be "the" or "a" BFM king. I just offered up experiences from flying both. As you know at 106 we fly A-F, however guys that were "C" guys or "E/F" guys tend to stick to what they were initially trained in for what they perfer doing BFM. You will here the C guys saying "you gotta respect the charles". Well, when the C first came out, I'd agree. Anybody that has flown both would rather go to war in a new high lot Rhino. In the A/A arena, the Chuck isn't even in the same ballpark as a Rhino. The APG-79, ALQ-214 and the reduced RCS makes the choice a no brainer. In the real world, a Rhino has a heck of a lot better chance of getting an unobserevd entry than a C. I'll trade a very slight disadvantage in roll rate for the benefits of a Rhino anytime. More gas, more bring back, and way better avionics. The Charlie was a good airplane when it came out and did well with upgrades. Its just getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

[Brett327]

And you are basing this on what?

It's an airwing specific thing. It's called "SMART tanking." We tried it on my last cruise and the general consensus was that it doesn't work very well. On paper, it's supposed to save gas (dump less).

Brett

 

[a_m]

It's an airwing specific thing. It's called "SMART tanking." We tried it on my last cruise and the general consensus was that it doesn't work very well. On paper, it's supposed to save gas (dump less).

Brett

That was more of an airwing specific question aimed at Mumbles.

 

[pilot_man]

I def don't claim to be "the" or "a" BFM king. I just offered up experiences from flying both. As you know at 106 we fly A-F, however guys that were "C" guys or "E/F" guys tend to stick to what they were initially trained in for what they perfer doing BFM. You will here the C guys saying "you gotta respect the charles". Well, when the C first came out, I'd agree. Anybody that has flown both would rather go to war in a new high lot Rhino. In the A/A arena, the Chuck isn't even in the same ballpark as a Rhino. The APG-79, ALQ-214 and the reduced RCS makes the choice a no brainer. In the real world, a Rhino has a heck of a lot better chance of getting an unobserevd entry than a C. I'll trade a very slight disadvantage in roll rate for the benefits of a Rhino anytime. More gas, more bring back, and way better avionics. The Charlie was a good airplane when it came out and did well with upgrades. Its just getting a bit long in the tooth.

Yes, yes. Thank you for your Super Hornet praises. And I agree. I never said I would rather go to war in a Charlie, I just said I would rather BFM in a big motor Chuck. I like the Rhino, it is really nice. Yes having all of the toys makes life a lot easier, but that doesn't mean 4 dudes in A++s couldn't school 4 dudes in Supers. I just wonder, since you felt you had to offer your experiences, how much time you have actually flying and fighting in fleet Hornets. Please don't try to turn every thread into a Hornet v. Super debate. Someone said the F flies the same as the E, and I chimed in that they don't. They all fly different and are better at certain aspects of flight than others.

 

[Pap]

Ah, the BFM king from 106 has spoken so it must be true.

Yes, yes. Thank you for your Super Hornet praises........I just wonder, since you felt you had to offer your experiences, how much time you have actually flying and fighting in fleet Hornets.

Pilot Man,

What's your issue here? EODDave was just stating his opinion. If you want to state your opinion/belief which might be contrary to his opinion, then post it. However, there is no need to pop and attitude like that. Both of you wear wings and both of you fly Hornets. I dont understand the reason for the attitude.

To get back to the original intent of the discussion. If I can kick your ass in BFM in an F, then I can also kick your ass in an A, B, C, D and E. Both airframes essentially have the same flight characteristics. I have flown enough in both airframes that I honestly don’t consciously notice the differences but I do fly and fight them differently.

 

[Mumbles]

At least on this cruise, Matt, no 5 wet, .... only during workups when event factor was a big part of grading criteria.

edit: shit Matt....I thought that was a Ripper and a Hawk jet. I guess the N on the tail should have been a dead giveaway. Now I see the error of my ways.
I was specifically talking about CVW-1.

 

[a_m]

At least on this cruise, Matt, no 5 wet, .... only during workups when event factor was a big part of grading criteria.

edit: shit Matt....I thought that was a Ripper and a Hawk jet. I guess the N on the tail should have been a dead giveaway. Now I see the error of my ways.
I was specifically talking about CVW-1.

That clears things up immensely. I've only seen a yo-yo out here maybe 4 times in two cruises.

 

[EODDave]

Pilot Man,

If you can tell the difference between an E and an F, thats awesone. They feel the very similar to me. I can feel the difference between a Charlie and a Rhino but thats it. Obviously you have a ton of fleet time in both and can tell the difference. Its also obvious that you have some beef with me, 106 or Rhinos. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about it. I am going on a limb here and guessing you are a Charlie guy by trade.

And since you want to continue the debate with A++ against Rhinos, I'll play along. Are you talking average fleet squadron aviators in their perspective platforms? In BFM, seems like we all agree that its up to the man in the box on any given day. If you are talking BVR, then I am going to disagree with you here. A++ Hornets are not even close to being in the same league as high lot APG-79 Rhinos.

 

[Recovering LSO]

It's an airwing specific thing. It's called "SMART tanking." We tried it on my last cruise and the general consensus was that it doesn't work very well. On paper, it's supposed to save gas (dump less).

Brett

our airwing currently has a crush on the yo-yo, but it just doesn't flow out as well in real life as it does on paper - just like you've stated. We end up with A LOT of open deck time standing around waiting for the second yo in the yo yo

 

[pilot_man]

Pilot Man,

What's your issue here? EODDave was just stating his opinion. If you want to state your opinion/belief which might be contrary to his opinion, then post it. However, there is no need to pop and attitude like that. Both of you wear wings and both of you fly Hornets. I dont understand the reason for the attitude.

To get back to the original intent of the discussion. If I can kick your ass in BFM in an F, then I can also kick your ass in an A, B, C, D and E. Both airframes essentially have the same flight characteristics. I have flown enough in both airframes that I honestly don’t consciously notice the differences but I do fly and fight them differently.

So here is my issue and why I have something of an attitude. Someone asks if the E and F fight the same. A WSO answers that they do, which I as a pilot disagree with, so I say it. Whatever. I then have a guy, who I'm pretty sure has ZERO time fighting in a fleet Chuck, telling me that I am wrong. So, I must be speaking out of my ass then right? Does he think I'm just making this shit up? I said I would rather fight in a big motor C, not that everyone would. And in my opinion, they don't fight the same. I don't care about all of the Gucciness of the Super, that's not the point, but that is what he wants to rant on about. If someone wants to argue with me that an APG-79 F is better at BFM than an APG-73, 402 Chuck, then I'd love to see them at the merge.:icon_rage

 

[EODDave]

Reread my post and lighten up Francis. I've offered up my background and experience in both and you have only ranted. And since you have your panties in a bunch about fleet C's versus what we have at 106 when it comes to BFM then please enlighten me all knowing one. Its the same freaking airplane minus some boxes which mean jack and shit in BFM. The only thing that some fleet C's have that 106 C's dont is helmet and 9x. So other than mids, helemt and 9x, what do the C's your flying in the FLEET have that the 106 jets dont? Not a freaking thing. Why? Because all the 106 jets come and go to the fleet all the time. Same plane different squadron.

When it comes to E and F's and they way they fly, then yes, we disagree. What does fighting time in a fleet C have to do with E and F differences.

You would rather fight a big motor C. Thats cool. Like I said in my earlier post. Guys that were C guys by trade like to fight BFM in C's. Same statement goes for Rhino guys.

And once again, reread my post above. I never said that in BFM a Rhino is better, just that down low it has extra thrust and will out accelerate a C (FACT). I said BVR a APG 79 Rhino was better hands down. I am fairly sure we all came to the conclusion that in BFM, it was the guy flying not the type of hornet. And let me repeat this again cause you dont seem to get it. Its more about the guy in the cockpit instead of what version Hornet you find yourself in. And if you really think you are invincible at the merge in a big motor C, then thats cool.

 

[pilot_man]

I think I'm invincible because I teach BFM, you don't. Stick to Fams and Forms. Believe it or not, you are not the expert on all things F-18. Those minor things like fighting with a helmet and 9x are a pretty big deal. Don't tell me to lighten up, just don't post in a thread that you don't belong in. I've got a Helo dude making jokes about SAR and Super Hornets and you who knows all. That's why my panties are in a wad. Just because people have a reply button at the bottom of a thread doesn't mean you have to use it. You started this by sticking your expert advice in when it wasn't requested, or needed.

 

[squorch2]

Good to see there are dick measuring contests across communities. (smiles)

 

[MasterBates]

I am picturing this flame war happening across the IP ready room.

Then again, I got into a flame war about something on AW WITH MY ROOMATE on cruise.

 

[usmarinemike]

Good to see there are dick measuring contests across communities. (smiles)

I'd like to see them hug it out in the MOA.