• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

F-35B/C Lightning II (Joint Strike Fighter)

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Not that I disagree with you (though I've heard of uniformed folks being "moved aside"), but it seems the relative high turnover of uniformed positions makes that kind of accountability difficult, if not impossible. By the time a big time F up decision matures enough to really bite you in the ass, the people most responsible for implementing it have usually moved on.
Isn't that how ADM Rickover convinced the Navy and Congress to leave him in place for decades? He argued that he was willing to stick around and be held accountable for whatever system he approved. He famously once told Congress that an Army General who testified before him and made certain guarantees about a major acquisition project could not really be held accountable because he would be long gone before things went south. It was an empty promise. But he, Rickover, would still be around and could be summoned to Congress to explain himself. You have to admit. I don't recall hearing of the sort of acquisition nightmares and program performance issues we have in aviation in the nuke program. Coinkydink?
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
What you too good to walk range cleanup? Hell Ive got 30 or 40 shell casings in my house. Not to mention a couple rockets, a few MPSMs, and a half a dozen flechettes. Trick is just to figure out which lane all the shooting took place on from the Range Tower and the where abouts people did the shooting. The shell casings look great polished or powder coated. Make good shot glasses too, though a little more than a regular shot unless you cut them down.

Best thing is making new pilots Shine a TP round thats been recovered. Ive seen units that make it an "inspectable item" at Pilots briefings and such.

I'm down. Feel free to come walk the 2507 with me anytime. After MAG DOSS has an aneurysm and Harrier Dude's head explodes.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
I'm down. Feel free to come walk the 2507 with me anytime. After MAG DOSS has an aneurysm and Harrier Dude's head explodes.

Its amazing to see the differences between each services approach to safety. I can climb on my aircraft without any sort of head gear whatsoever, even stand on the doghouse feet 14 feet off the ground. But we cant expect people to drive a gator around the flightline in a combat zone without leather gloves, a reflective belt, eye protection, and a helmet on all passangers.

Range Cleanup is an all hands event. Even Commanders are out there, though in a more humvee riding supervisor (read cherry picking) role. Armys approach to most of the ranges we shoot on is simple, we've been dropping ordnance and walking range cleanup out here for 50-100 years. If it looks like its been here longer than a few weeks, leave it the hell alone. And absolutely no digging (especially at Knox). Other than that everybody does what essentially amounts to a FOD walk across a couple miles worth of open grass and hills and what you find you find. The little plywood/conex towns are where most of the exotic stuff is (flechettes, MPSMs, etc)
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Trip report on F-35 plant tour: I was very impressed with the F-35 line. Awesome. I saw the 100th aircraft in production. It was on gear and was having avionics installed. Also saw aircraft destined for Australia and Italy. Good to see given how partner countries are pushing back orders or getting week kneed about the cost and delays. Interestingly, they build up the aircraft on it's wing tip. They are the only production line to ever do that. It doesn't get flipped upright until landing gear and engine installation. While it is on it's wing tip production is on two "floors", actually permanent open stands or catwalks. For wing build up there are two lines. One for left wing one for right. The line pulses, as they call it, every 15 days or so. That is the assembly line moves at a glacial pace. Right now they produce 4 aircraft a month. Full rate is about 15. The line guys are already bitching claiming that will never happen because it is too much work (can you say "union"). Each aircraft is marked so you can tell what version A/B/C , country it is going to and what production number it is. Some cool things, I saw a several autoclaves the largest was at least 25 feet in diameter, awesome. Closest thing to automated production were basically giant CNC machines that drilled and cut composite parts. When they are running the room that houses them must be evacuated because the speed they operate at would cause catastrophic damage if something broke or came loose. About 70% of the aircraft is made by other companies and countries. Given the current "just in time" supply chain that is in vogue, if a major part is broken or is delivered inoperative or out of specs, work could stop until a new one is shipped in. There are zero spares for many parts. For parts supplied by foreign countries that could be weeks. They actually have a hangar queen they cannibalize if necessary to keep things moving. Woe be the employee that breaks one of those parts. No wait...union, never mind. They are currently pursuing the top level of EPA/OSHA certification. The building is so big that certain chemicals used in production that normally have to be used out doors for proper ventilation can be used on the line due to the volume under roof. All the tooling, fixtures, jigs, molds, etc are actually owned by the government. Lockheed just purchased or built them for Uncle. If they shut down production nearly everything in the building would be shipped out to storage. It would be practically empty. If the government is dissatisfied with Lockheed the feds can take the means of manufacture and send it to any other company they want to build the "Lockheed" F-35.

Also under production in Ft Worth are Japanese F-2s. Think Rhino version of the F-16. The Japanese lost something like an entire squadron in the Tsunami and don't have the capability to build more at this time or at least fast enough. So Lockheed is building a few to replace losses. Also a couple new F-16s roll out every month for foreign militaries.

We went out to the bone yard to see the A-12 and it was gone. I was really disappointed. My son was surprised as he saw it very recently. Today he found out it was removed for restoration and placement at FT Worth Veteran's Memorial Park. Soon we will all be able to view it less the bag. Something else cool out at the bone yard was a F-22 with lift fan and VMA squadron markings. Never heard about that pipe dream.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
......Also under production in Ft Worth are Japanese F-2s. Think Rhino version of the F-16. The Japanese lost something like an entire squadron in the Tsunami and don't have the capability to build more at this time or at least fast enough. So Lockheed is building a few to replace losses.......

Almost their entire 'RAG' squadron of two-seat F-2B's was wiped out when Matsushima Airfield was hit by the tsunami, only 6 of the 18 F-2Bs stationed there were deemed salvageable. When their whole fleet of F-2's is only 94 aircraft it is no surprise they want to replace that big a loss, I am a little surprised though that there is nothing on the internets about Lockheed building more F-2's.

airsdf_G_20110316070754.jpg


"Maintenance control said it would be just one more hour until it was up."

Something else cool out at the bone yard was a F-22 with lift fan and VMA squadron markings. Never heard about that pipe dream.

Was it just a mock-up?
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
Almost their entire 'RAG' squadron of two-seat F-2B's was wiped out when Matsushima Airfield was hit by the tsunami, only 6 of the 18 F-2Bs stationed there were deemed salvageable. When their whole fleet of F-2's is only 94 aircraft it is no surprise they want to replace that big a loss, I am a little surprised though that there is nothing on the internets about Lockheed building more F-2's.

airsdf_G_20110316070754.jpg

AMAN Snuffy told me it'll buff right out.
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Anyone know what the latest is with VMFA-121 replacing 242 in Japan? The last avplan I read (2011 I think) said 2017. At the F-35 round table in SD 121's CO said it was going to occur in 2016. What happens to a squadron when they're relocated, replaced by a different aircraft, or transition to another aircraft?
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
Anyone know what the latest is with VMFA-121 replacing 242 in Japan? The last avplan I read (2011 I think) said 2017. At the F-35 round table in SD 121's CO said it was going to occur in 2016. What happens to a squadron when they're relocated, replaced by a different aircraft, or transition to another aircraft?
The MC FY13 Avplan shows VMFA-121 heading to Japan during the first quarter FY17 (Oct 2016). It also says VMFA(AW)-242 will relocate & assign to MAG-11 at MCAS Miramar.
 

Amory

New Member
Anyone have any idea (or guess) when or how they're going to start training pilots on these? Current goal is 2018, so does that mean those that get pulled for F-35s will have gotten their wings in 2018 or later? Or does that mean that pilots who were winged earlier would start training on F-35s in order to meet the 2018 goal? Just curious.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Anyone have any idea (or guess) when or how they're going to start training pilots on these? Current goal is 2018, so does that mean those that get pulled for F-35s will have gotten their wings in 2018 or later? Or does that mean that pilots who were winged earlier would start training on F-35s in order to meet the 2018 goal? Just curious.

Which service? The Marines have already started training pilot studs at VMFAT-501 though I think they are all transition guys right now, not sure when they are going to start taking folks directly after winging. As for the Navy, it is going to be a while before we start ramping things up...
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
Anyone have any idea (or guess) when or how they're going to start training pilots on these? Current goal is 2018, so does that mean those that get pulled for F-35s will have gotten their wings in 2018 or later? Or does that mean that pilots who were winged earlier would start training on F-35s in order to meet the 2018 goal? Just curious.
The Marines are currently training CAT 2 pilots in VMFAT-501 for the F-35.

According to the latest AVPLAN, the first Marine F-35 CAT 1's (Cone's) will select in FY15. If this holds true, Marine students who are starting Jet training now or over the next few months might have the F-35 as a selection choice when they wing next year.
 

Amory

New Member
The Marines are currently training CAT 2 pilots in VMFAT-501 for the F-35.

According to the latest AVPLAN, the first Marine F-35 CAT 1's (Cone's) will select in FY15. If this holds true, Marine students who are starting Jet training now or over the next few months might have the F-35 as a selection choice when they wing next year.

Ah alright, cool, makes sense. What about the Navy side? Last I hear 2018 was the goal, does that mean that pilot who start jet training in 2018 would presumably have the option to select F-35s? The internet tells me that VFA-101 is currently a FRS for F-35s, but since we're still years out from the F-35C being in service, is that more of a testing role or what? Sorry, I'm obviously pretty much a complete noob.
 
Last edited:
Top