Eco Friendly Blues

[The Phiz]

Blue Angels use Biofuel. So, I don't know much about the topic, but thought it interesting. What do you guys think about the viability of this Great Green Fleet? That is a lot of biofuel.

It seems like biofuels haven't really caught on much based on what I see... so how do you think this will work.

 

[Swanee]

Blue Angels use Biofuel. So, I don't know much about the topic, but thought it interesting. What do you guys think about the viability of this Great Green Fleet? That is a lot of biofuel.

It seems like biofuels haven't really caught on much based on what I see... so how do you think this will work.

Make it cheaper to produce than Jet fuel and we'll probably use it.

 

[BusyBee604]

It seems like biofuels haven't really caught on much based on what I see... so how do you think this will work.

My main concern is that the more farmland acreage we devote to raising corn for biofuel, might someday slowly erode our ability to raise corn for human consumption. It could require some difficult political decisions regarding food/fuel overall priorities in the not too distant future??? Much of our formerly 'limitless' farmland has been developed during the past century.
BzB

 

[scoolbubba]

My main concern is that the more farmland acreage we devote to raising corn for biofuel, might someday slowly erode our ability to raise corn for human consumption. It could require some difficult political decisions regarding food/fuel overall priorities in the not too distant future??? Much of our formerly 'limitless' farmland has been developed during the past century.
BzB

Notice the drastic increase in the cost of food over the past 5-10 years? You can trace that directly back to subsidies for ethanol. More corn for inefficient, shitty "eco friendly" gas=less cheap feed for everything else we eat.

 

[eas7888]

There has been a lot of research going in to producing biofuels from the non-consumable plant parts from the corn or soy we raise for human consumption. This would be a significant improvement. However, many people use that as compost to help fertilize the soil . . . so, who knows?

 

[The Phiz]

Well, from the article, I don't think this is corn based. It's planted on poor land or between wheat crops. I don't know if it contends with corn production in the slightest (yet). I've heard talk about ethanol drying out things like gaskets and such... But I've only heard it talked about affecting small engines and such (when they aren't run for a long time).

 

[jmcquate]

JetA is JetA. If it makes the hippies happey that the war mongering F-18s are eco-friendly, all the better.

 

[CAMike]

Jet A can sometimes be Jet A.

BusyBee604 is correct. Ag land and its associated ebbs and flows with regards to chemical treatment, hydration etc. make it a potential food crop. It's a great "green" concept but it's potential effect on human sustainable crops is another matter entirely. I'm not sure we're at that point yet where we need to grow our own JP5 at Lemoore to sustain flight ops. If we default on every outstanding international loan- maybe.

 

[phrogdriver]

Nothing wrong with it. Corn-based biofuels are an economic disaster, that have only been sustainable up to this point due to farm-state subsidies. Other crops that produce cellulose-based biofuels are out there now, as are algae-based biofuels. Those don't directly compete with food crops, and will hopefully become competitive with petroleum in time. "Green" or not, I'd rather grow fuel here if we can than have to buy it from some Wahhabist extremist.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Watched the POM-12 analysis on this and the other Task Force Energy initiatives at the 5 sided house of pain. Curious to see what types of companies (H/E drive, algofuel, hull coatings etc etc etc) our decision makers are invested in, watching how hard this stuff is getting pushed...... felt like asking the SECNAV on the elevetor up from the PAC one day, but smartly shut my pie hole and stared at the floor.

The return on investment on all these energy initiatives is questionable, IMO we should wait on industry to validate them, then purchase after all the R&D is paid for.. (the airline and other industries are very interested).

I don't think there is any way to meet the SECNAV energy goals and the CNO's consumption cut goal without parking the fleet and chocking and chaining NAVAIR.

But having the Blues fly on biofuel will maybe make us feel good and win the Navy another Energy Award... yay! Overheard: "Are there any other awards we could put ourselves in for???" This is just like the diversity initiative... award winning wheel spinning which does nothing for our warfighting capability.

 

[flaps]

re:
"My main concern is that the more farmland acreage we devote to raising corn for biofuel, might someday slowly erode our ability to raise corn for human consumption. It could require some difficult political decisions regarding food/fuel overall priorities in the not too distant future??? Much of our formerly 'limitless' farmland has been developed during the past century.
BzB​

Notice the drastic increase in the cost of food over the past 5-10 years? You can trace that directly back to subsidies for ethanol. More corn for inefficient, shitty "eco friendly" gas=less cheap feed for everything else we eat. "

from a gun freak pard,

http://emailactivity.ecn5.com/engines/publicPreview.aspx?blastID=405670&emailID=146407930

 

[Flash]

Notice the drastic increase in the cost of food over the past 5-10 years? You can trace that directly back to subsidies for ethanol. More corn for inefficient, shitty "eco friendly" gas=less cheap feed for everything else we eat.

And rapidly rising middle class in India, China, Brazil and other countries where food consumption is rising along with wealth has absolutely nothing to do with it.......

If it makes us less dependent on unreliable sources of energy and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I am all for it......

 

[helolumpy]

Except the flight deck will now smell liked burned microwave popcorn...

 

[PropAddict]

The return on investment on all these energy initiatives is questionable, IMO we should wait on industry to validate them, then purchase after all the R&D is paid for..

RADM Hopper had a great story about convincing people in the Navy to keep funding UNIVAC. It seems the gov't folks thought it was a waste of money and had no future because every time they cycled power to it it blew a half dozen vacuum tubes and had to be re-started. . .we all know how that one turned out. . .

There used to be a time when the military had all the Gucci gear and the highest tech; now we pay twice as much for last gen COTS tech that we cludge together and kind of make work for our purposes. Somebody's gotta make that first least of faith and $$$ to find new energy tech. Why not the Navy? The public wants green energy, so it's good PR, easy justification for increased funding, and something I suspect will pay huge dividends in the future.

 

[scoolbubba]

And rapidly rising middle class in India, China, Brazil and other countries where food consumption is rising along with wealth has absolutely nothing to do with it.......

If it makes us less dependent on unreliable sources of energy and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I am all for it......

China, India, and Brazil have been growing rapidly for 50+ years. They didn't wake up one morning and decide to bang out some kids. Demand is higher, but we are artificially inflating food prices with government incentives to grow food designed not to be eaten.

My problem with ethanol is we pay more for it than normal petroleum, it's not an especially clean form of energy, and it's not efficient...plus food is getting more expensive, yet we continue to pay farmers huge subsidies to grow corn for ethanol. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.