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E-2D Advanced Hawkeye - Less than a year out.
- Thread starter snake020
- Start date
So are you saying that the studs will have the choice between the C or D?
It'll still be a little while before there are any pipeline D studs, but future guys will likely be divvied up similar to the way we split up Group II and HE2K NFO students now or E-2/C-2 pilots in StuCon.
@Casey: anything's possible as long as there's an X involved, but Derms and I have yet to work out our plan of attack since one or both of us have been out of town.
@Casey: anything's possible as long as there's an X involved, but Derms and I have yet to work out our plan of attack since one or both of us have been out of town.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the C vs D will cause a 3 way "Thunderdome" between the pilots like COD vs E2 does now..
Shiny New Plane
vs
Old and Busted
vs
Older and More Busted, with Per Diem
Shiny New Plane
vs
Old and Busted
vs
Older and More Busted, with Per Diem
Well, in regard to choice...see my earlier comments about "choice" in the Navy! But, the way it is being planned out at this point, if you are designated an Advanced Hawkeye guy when you get to the FRS, that's all you'll be...no cross training, there's just too many hurdles and differences between the two planes.
As far as a dog and pony goes...you make a very good point, and hey, I'm always interested in a trip to P'cola! But I know where you're coming from...when I went through VT's, no one knew anything about the Hawkeye, or those who did, never talked it up...probably because they were there to get out of the Navy anyways.
For those not in the "know", Pepe and Mudd (mentioned by Goober) are two Hawkeye NFOs that are coming down to P'cola and VTs for their command tours, so hopefully we'll see more info getting out to students about the aircraft and mission.
There had been questions in another thread about what the FRS is like now, compared to 2003 or so. I'll let Goober answer that, since he's the current FRS expert, but one thing that will come with D is a completely new training system. It's being built from the ground up, and will completely change the way the FRS is doing business right now. But, what will probably NOT change is that the FRS will still be a lot of pain, studying, too much tron chasing, and not enough tactics. But the good news is...the FRS ends, and the fleet awaits. And that's where the fun begins!
Of all U.S. Navy air platforms, the Hawkeye offers the NFO more mission, more responsibility and more challenge (in my personal, not-so-humble opinion) than anything else flying off the deck with FO's in it. That's not going to change in the future...it will only become more apparent.
Oh, and speaking of X's...guys down in P'cola...remember, you can fly a cross country up to Norfolk, and get tours of the sims and aircraft, etc. If you'd really like to see what it's all about, think about that option. I doubt you'd have a hard time finding an instructor to come up, and there's some decent nightlife 'round these parts...or so I hear.
Spool, you make the Kool-Aid sound so good.
I tell my students around here, the job of an E-2 FO isn't sexy. Nobody's ever going to make Hawkeye Guy: The Movie. But it's vitally important work, and the Air Wing will not function smoothly without a VAW squadron who know their shit and are trusted by the TACAIR guys.
Fuck it away as a JO FO in any other Tailhook community, and unless it involves dropping ordie, odds are no one but your wingman or pilot will know. In E-2's, you'll have the opportunity to fuck it away as a JO and everyone in the Air Wing will know. Nothing like having CAG turn around during a TACTS debrief in Fallon and glare at the E-2 crew. That's a lot of responsibility for a new guy, so don't go this route if you'd rather hide in the pack.
Tell you what though - it's a job that rewards aggressive, competent controllers. A lot of paintful, unrewarding hours droning in circles watching the scope go roundy-round, but when some Hornet guy stops by at midrats and says, "glad you guys were up there tonight," it's definitely worth it.
I tell my students around here, the job of an E-2 FO isn't sexy. Nobody's ever going to make Hawkeye Guy: The Movie. But it's vitally important work, and the Air Wing will not function smoothly without a VAW squadron who know their shit and are trusted by the TACAIR guys.
Fuck it away as a JO FO in any other Tailhook community, and unless it involves dropping ordie, odds are no one but your wingman or pilot will know. In E-2's, you'll have the opportunity to fuck it away as a JO and everyone in the Air Wing will know. Nothing like having CAG turn around during a TACTS debrief in Fallon and glare at the E-2 crew. That's a lot of responsibility for a new guy, so don't go this route if you'd rather hide in the pack.
Tell you what though - it's a job that rewards aggressive, competent controllers. A lot of paintful, unrewarding hours droning in circles watching the scope go roundy-round, but when some Hornet guy stops by at midrats and says, "glad you guys were up there tonight," it's definitely worth it.
Well, I did spend my first shore duty at the factory (NSAWC). I'm not gonna lie...I like the Kool-Aid!
That's no joke...nothing worse than having a really crappy go at Airwing Fallon and having a bunch of F-5s get in and rape your Hornet guys without you knowing about it.
Hammer 21: "Millertime milliertime."
Hawkeye Controller: "Picture clean."
(High fives commence in the tube, there's much rejoicing - until about three minutes later)
RTO: "Hammer 24 - you're dead."
(Mass confusion and profanity commences in the tube)
RTO: "Hammer 22 - you're dead."
Hammer 21: "Ghost - PICTURE!"
Hawkeye Controller (the voice of chaos): "umm, uh...picture...umm...UNABLE!"
RTO: "Hammer 21 - you're dead." (Oh snap...the Strike Lead just died...he's gonna be pissed.)
(ARRRRGGHHH!!!! People are being killed inside the tube now as well...WHERE ARE THEY?!!! WHERE ARE THEY!!?!!?!?)
Hammer 23: "Hammer 23, Fox 2, kill brown F-5 in left hand turn, Bullseye 250 for 54."
RTO: FINEX FINEX.
Worst feeling in the world. Until you get to the debrief and have to explain how you didn't see the alert group launch out of Rock, cap in the ground clutter and then firewall it to catch the egressing fighters. Funny how everything is clear as day on the TACTS screen. Ouch.
But the good news is this...Advanced Hawkeye. New plane...new radar. YES!
Also true...and not just the Air Wing. Do it in an ADEX during COMPTUEX, and you'll be in the War Room with your CICO, watching him try to explain to the admiral why the carrier was sunk. Ask a nugget fighter guy where the War Room is, and he'll point you to his stateroom for Halo LAN action. Which is WAY more fun than the real War Room.
But this works both ways...because the majority of strike group commanders recognize the importance the Hawkeye, and respect the amount of tactical knowledge across mission areas and platforms that the Hawkeye guy knows. You'll get called to be a rep at a lot of meetings consisting of all O-5's, O-6s, an O-7...and your junior butt. And you want to know your stuff...not because you're trying to look good, but because you care about mission success and are looking to play your part.
This is also true. Right now, even though the Hawkeye is not being utilized tactically as far as the ABC2 mission goes in OEF/OIF (though we DO train to it...base us out of Kandahar or Bagram and we could be more useful)...there are still many instances where our Navy brethern end up in situations where they need some help. Fuel is usually the issue. The tactical guys are looking to extend or continue supporting a Troops in Contact scenario, and because of that, their fragged fuel is not going to work out, or they need more, or they need an open deck, or they've got a jet emergency and need to get info back to the ship...there's lots of admin/non tactical stuff that the Hawkeye still ends up helping in, and they are thankful for it. That's real world ops. Again, at least there's five of you in the plane to goof off. We can't hook up PS3 in the back...YET. I've got high hopes with the D.
Workups, on the other hand...will task you. You'll train for operations and missions we're not currently doing in the real world, but need to be ready to execute if the time comes...workups will keep you busy - but that can be really fun too.
I'm realizing that I'm making the Hawkeye NFO job seem like it's all work and no play. That's not accurate. Yes, a lot is expected of you, but the time to learn it is adequate, and you'll take your lumps just like any other community's nuggets.
There is still ample time (at least on your first tour) to get some serious Call of Duty/ HALO action and tons of sleep. That all comes on cruise, actually...workups are way harder than cruise - in my opinion.
There is still ample time (at least on your first tour) to get some serious Call of Duty/ HALO action and tons of sleep. That all comes on cruise, actually...workups are way harder than cruise - in my opinion.
For anyone that may be wondering, I was in Spool's RAG class, and, yes, he was just like this back then, too. He'll write you a novel if you keep asking him questions.
By the way, Spooler, it wasn't the Navy that gave you west coast...it was Kumar. Never forget that. I still blame Kumar for anything that goes wrong in my life. I would say this to his face, so i'm cool with putting it on the interwebs.
As a (former) Hummer mole and newly minted civilian I will say that (1)everything said about Hawkeye guys is correct and (2) don't ever become a civilian. The real world sucks.
My story about how I got Hawkeye's is almost identical to Spooler's except that we had 2 Hawkeye slots because one guy lobbied to get an EXTRA spot because he wanted Hawkeye's so damn bad. Well, that guy DOR'd about 2 days before I-Grad. So the spot went to me. You can imagine how pleased I was. I actually wrote on my dream sheet ,"Anything but Hawkeye's." No shit. But, I went to New Orleans that night and got as drunk as I have ever been and got over it. Ended up loving the community because we never took ourselves too seriously.
For the guys in primary or intermediate that get voluntold to go E-2's, a little advice: We pride ourselves on having one of the most difficult programs of any RAG out there. No kidding, it is damn hard. Spooler made it look easy, but I struggled. If I had shown up with a chip on my shoulder thinking that I was supposed to be a fighter guy, then I never would have made it through.
$.02 issued.
By the way, Spooler, it wasn't the Navy that gave you west coast...it was Kumar. Never forget that. I still blame Kumar for anything that goes wrong in my life. I would say this to his face, so i'm cool with putting it on the interwebs.
As a (former) Hummer mole and newly minted civilian I will say that (1)everything said about Hawkeye guys is correct and (2) don't ever become a civilian. The real world sucks.
My story about how I got Hawkeye's is almost identical to Spooler's except that we had 2 Hawkeye slots because one guy lobbied to get an EXTRA spot because he wanted Hawkeye's so damn bad. Well, that guy DOR'd about 2 days before I-Grad. So the spot went to me. You can imagine how pleased I was. I actually wrote on my dream sheet ,"Anything but Hawkeye's." No shit. But, I went to New Orleans that night and got as drunk as I have ever been and got over it. Ended up loving the community because we never took ourselves too seriously.
For the guys in primary or intermediate that get voluntold to go E-2's, a little advice: We pride ourselves on having one of the most difficult programs of any RAG out there. No kidding, it is damn hard. Spooler made it look easy, but I struggled. If I had shown up with a chip on my shoulder thinking that I was supposed to be a fighter guy, then I never would have made it through.
$.02 issued.
Tom...you sir, are a great American, and I hope that things are good out there in the land of petroleum land management! Any talk of Texas becoming their own country yet? Keep me posted.
I'll never forget running into you and Tres at the Willie Nelson concert post I-grad...classic.
For folks reading this thread...it's dudes like Boomhower here that make Naval Aviation, regardless of platform, worth anything. While the job may be important and the paycheck is nice...it's guys like this that keep you around, and give you stories to talk about for the rest of your life.
Oh, and Tom's right...I am longwinded...but I mean well!
I'll never forget running into you and Tres at the Willie Nelson concert post I-grad...classic.
For folks reading this thread...it's dudes like Boomhower here that make Naval Aviation, regardless of platform, worth anything. While the job may be important and the paycheck is nice...it's guys like this that keep you around, and give you stories to talk about for the rest of your life.
Oh, and Tom's right...I am longwinded...but I mean well!
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Gimme a crack at it. I think I can voodoo it in the HE2K at least.. But you gotta buy the pilots PSPs as a fair trade.
Tom...you sir, are a great American, and I hope that things are good out there in the land of petroleum land management! Any talk of Texas becoming their own country yet? Keep me posted.
I'll never forget running into you and Tres at the Willie Nelson concert post I-grad...classic.
For folks reading this thread...it's dudes like Boomhower here that make Naval Aviation, regardless of platform, worth anything. While the job may be important and the paycheck is nice...it's guys like this that keep you around, and give you stories to talk about for the rest of your life.
Oh, and Tom's right...I am longwinded...but I mean well!
Spooler, good to hear from you. Thanks for the kind words. But to be honest, I barely remember that concert, much less seeing you there. That was a good night. I believe that we heard a rumor that Willie was going to play the Florabama after the concert so we raced over there. Then we hear he was going to play "The Keg" over in Alabama so we raced over there. Neither turned out to be true. Then Trace threw a chair into the middle of a packed dance floor at The Keg. We were immediately thrown out.
Gov. Perry has me working on the secession plan as we speak. And don't try to attack us, I know all of your tactics. At least, I knew all of your tactics. I've forgotten more about the Hawkeye than I ever knew...all in one short year.
Keep selling the Hawkeye to the young'uns on these boards. Though, as I remember when I was a RAG instructor, probably 95% of the guys (and gals) that were there asked for Hawkeyes. Very different than our days. They dragged damn near all of us to 120 kicking and screaming.
I can't offer my experience as an NFO in the Hawkeye, however I was a tactical information coordinator (OS2) on the USS Theodore Roosevelt before I was picked up for NFO BDCP. I had a very close relationship with the Hawkey NFO's because of the similarities in our jobs. The Hawkeye is a fantastic platform as far as overall situational awareness for the strike group. Because I was linked in with those guys, I can tell you the amount of information that goes through one of those planes is overwhelming. I depended heavily on you guys to paint an overall picture of what was going on in theater. The ability to share information with everyone in the strike group and air wing is placed heavily on the Hawkeye. It will definitely be one of my top choices when picking platforms. I think they tend to be overlooked because of a lack of understanding in what they actually do. Make no mistake, their capabilities are broad and they are involved in almost every aspect of warfare. Again I can't offer any first hand knowledge from being an NFO, but I will tell you from where I used to sit it was a great platform with a high profile within a carrier strike group.