Drop kicked from the Fleet?

[ThermalMoonbeam]

My dad was talkin' with a few freshly minted LTs who had been sent on their merry way by the Navy- apparently there were too many, or are too many Naval officers? One of the guys was from the academy.

Anyone heard of that happening, or did these guys smoke weed in the head?

 

[bch]

Do a search on this site. THere are many, many threads with regards to this topic.

 

[zab1001]

The Navy is going through the process of sending approximately 400 officers (I got the number from Navy Times) from its ranks through a process called IRAD; Involuntary Release from Active Duty.

The people being removed are typically junior officers who are not considered to be performing up to standard. For example, Ensigns (our 'freshly minted LTs' are called Ensigns, aka O-1) who go through Surface Warfare Officer School, report to their ship, and subsequently never fully qualify as SWOs and get their pins.

The big news on Airwarriors has been the new policy of no lateral transfers to another USN community after failing out or volunteering to quit (DOR/drop on request) from flight school. In years past, a guy who did not make it through could be sent to another community like SWO, Intel, Supply, etc. Now, with the downsizing of the Navy and it's Officer Corps, this is no longer an option. You screw up or quit, and you are on the street.

I've also seen this happen once a guy gets winged (details removed for his privacy). I knew an NFO (LTJG, O-2) who basically should have never been winged, but slipped through the cracks. He showed up to his Fleet squadron, couldn't perform even the most basic chores of a FO, and was promptly sent to work at a Base Ops at another NAS, to await his fate. He kept his wings, but could never fly again. He was trying to transfer to the Civil Engineering Corps, but the USN decided he was a good candidate to IRAD, another body to pull.

 

[airpirate25]

I was unfortunate enough to be one of the 400 "IRAD" LT's, yes O-3. I went through Primary NFO training, DOR'd because I had enough sense to know I wasn't hacking it, volunteered for SWO, was denied, did four years of sea duty on an LPD as MINI, earned OOD letter, CICWO , completed all PQS for SWO and TAO, was 1of 10 in my FITREP group, earned the Navy Comm. then found myself on the IRAD list after repeated attempts to redesignate were denied. I guess the Navy had to cut the fat, and if so, it makes sense to drop guys with less than admirable records. Still, I feel like I proved myself to be competent in another valuable line community and should have at the very least been allowed to stand the board for my SWO pin. Leaving the Navy after four years of the Academy, and almost five years of active duty with good marks was very difficult. Not to sound like the Waaambulance, but I ended up losing my career, my fiance, my self respect, and found that the civilian sector felt much the smae way as the Navy. I think if the Navy had asked for volunteers to leave a year or two earlier, they would have found more than enough in the ranks. I heard once that Nimitz ran a ship aground...I guess he wasn't any good either.
With Respects,
Dizzy

 

[Clux4]

Dizzy,
Is it possible for you at this point to possibly get into an Air National Guard or Army National Guard units or is it a done deal for the military at this point. What are the implications of this? - (DD-214)

 

[airpirate25]

Clux,

One of my first steps was contacting the Naval Reserve Ctr. I am assigned to for any postings, including permanent positions. The only help they offered was a 12 month contract as weapons inspector in Kuwait. This was not a path back into active duty, so I attempted to lat-transfer into the Army who sent me the paperwork for a Navy Reserve-Army Reserve transfer, but explained that this would likely be no different than my opportunities in the USNR. The conflict with the Guards is finding an opening close to your permanent job, which was very limited after eight months of searching. The closet Air Force unit had no openings, and my local Army unit is currently deployed...there is a strong chance of getting in as the current members enlistments expire. The Coast Guard offered me two choices, resign my commission and enlist as an E-1 or apply for the Goast Guard Academy. The MArines offered a simliar deal that would require not only going through TBS but OCS as well. In short, walking into a ful time job as an officer is pretty much impossible, but the Army Guard seems like where I'll be heading.

 

[jburnes]

airpirate,

so the marines would let you go through tbs and ocs, why didnt you take that option? I mean its a few levels down, but atleast you'd be back in the military.

 

[airpirate25]

Well, nearing 30, and already having earned 0-3, it's a question of are the risks worth the effort. I can fully understand why the Marines would require a total re-education in tactics, as their mission is very different from the Navy. On the other hand, I'm certain much of the training I went through to get my butter-bars the first time was commensurate with OCS. I was challenged physically, mentally and learned the universal importance of never asking more than you were willing to give. Bottom line, I'm a commisioned officer, with as much discipline to meet physical standards and training requirements as laid out in TBS. It seems unwise to give all that up to go compete with guys over a decade younger with no such experience. If being a naval officer is so cheaply valued that all other services consider the training inadequate, then maybe that's an issue for the big brass to consider. For my own part, I think I proved myself on that plane already, and am unashamed to say so.

 

[Eagle32]

I've also seen this happen once a guy gets winged (details removed for his privacy). I knew an NFO (LTJG, O-2) who basically should have never been winged, but slipped through the cracks. He showed up to his Fleet squadron, couldn't perform even the most basic chores of a FO, and was promptly sent to work at a Base Ops at another NAS, to await his fate. He kept his wings, but could never fly again. He was trying to transfer to the Civil Engineering Corps, but the USN decided he was a good candidate to IRAD, another body to pull.

Hmmmm, let me think about it. Oh yeah, I know who it is.

 

[Clux4]

airpirate,
Sorry to hear abou that. The guard seems relaxed about things compared to the regular reserves. Concerning the Marine option, I am wondering why they require you to go back to OCS, TBS ? I don't think interservice transfers into the USMC need to go back to OCS. I will expect them to at least require TBS but not OCS. I understand the age factor.
All the best.

 

[turtle_sc]

back to the original thread, there were three acadamy grads at my command that were nuke drops....apparently they could not pass the last test....anyway it looks like they are all getting the boot. SOme have tried to lat transfer, but it's not looking good. So, I guess they get a free ride through the acadamy and a nice letter saying thanks, but sorry we're going to have to let you go.....

 

[gaijin6423]

I wouldn't quite say that it's a good deal to go through the USNA and then get IRADed out. It's a case-by-case basis, but (and few of my friends have found this out firsthand) if you just half-ass your time in whatever school you're at, they might not just let you go, scott free. To put it another way, if the Navy determines that you didn't try hard enough, they are going to make you finish your obligated service in some dark, dark hole of a job. A very good friend of mine (2003 USNA grad) failed that last test at power school after putting in around 40-50 hours a week OUT of the classroom. They determined that he tried hard enough and tried to help him redesignate, which he wanted to do, but no joy, as every other community turned him down. So he was released from active duty, and now is finding it hard to find a job. Not because he's lazy or anything, but because he doesn't have enough service to qualify for veteran's preference job. And he doesn't really have much leadership experience to put on a resume, considering all he did was go to school.

 

[McNamara]

Wow, that sucks. I guess I better stop yelling, "DOR! No, just kidding!" when my instructors pass by. :icon_tong

The IRAD business is another example fo the Navy's shortsightedness. They could have prevented this by scaling back the number of commissions a couple of years ago, or at least shrinking the OCS classes for a while. Now if they overdo it, they'll face an officer shortage in a few years. They're getting rid of people to save money in the short run, but in the long run it may cost them more.

Gaijin, they don't have this problem in the Marines right now, do they? What's going to happen to you when you...I mean, if you fail out of primary?

 

[airpirate25]

After the last few comments, I'm reassured that being an officer is truly walking in excellent company. I think any of us who have either experienced or know those who have left the service for civilian life can honestly say that being a "ring-knocker" is no longer a key to success. Even my associates who had excellent OCS and ROTC backgrounds (sometimes much better academic credentials to boot) are finding it hard to "jump the line" so to speak. As for the IRAD issue, I have it from the highest sources that it wasn't an easy call to make, and certainly not the first time similar methods for personnel reduction have been used. Maybe the Navy and other services will learn from this that having a 4.0 in high school, or being an All American (no insult to previous comments intended) doesn't guarentee someone will make a good officer. We hate to admit it, because we value standardization and absolutes, not to mention a "get up or get out" culture. I knew lots of apparently timid, cautious and all around "stealths" who turned out being fire breathing, dyed in the wool JO's. The biggest hardship is balancing the maturity of a 21 year old Ensign against what he will be in ten years as an LT. Maybe that's asking too much, or getting too kum-by-ya, but hopefully someone does something to help those on their way up.