Deployment video causing heat for Enterprise Skipper

[navyao]

To start my response here's a quote from a female Sailor who served with Capt. Honors in Enterprise from Yahoo News...

"He was a caring professional and, yes, he has a sense of humor, but you need that on a boat," said Misty Davis, who served on the Enterprise from 2006 to 2010. The offending video was shown in 2007, and was a compilation of previous videos he had shown, she and others said.

"It's no worse than anything you'd see on `Saturday Night Live' or `The Family Guy,'" Davis said Monday. "I used to watch all of them. They were freaking hilarious."

I watched the video, wasn't at all offended and all I can think is how awesome it must be to work for an XO or Skipper like Capt. Honors. I have to agree with A4's, you guys have to take a stand, this is FUBAR! I still remember what it was like being a young Airman. I worked for and with O's and E's who were wound up too tight and thought their shit didn't stink for a number of reasons. But I also worked for guys like Capt. Honors, guys who cared about me, cared about the troops. Those were the guys; my LPO's, my Gunner, six of the pilots and RIO's in my squadron (that I can think of) who treated us as team member's, not just as AO3 or some enlisted guy. There were JO's and Senior O's that would joke around with us and others that wouldn't give us the time of day. Those guys that treated us like we were apart of the team, those were the guys I would've done anything for. My level of attention to detail went above and beyond for guys like Lt. Richardson or Lt. Riales.

It's tough living on the boat; 6 months on the boat ain't 6 months on shore. O's and E's need a morale boost once and awhile, if life becomes too PC you start hating life. I'd be curious to know how retention was while Capt. Honors was aboard, I bet it was high. The libs hate the military as far as I'm concearned and every chance they get they hammer away at it, this is a perfect example.

When will senior leadership start saying, this isn't the private sector. I'm sorry you're offended but that's too damn bad! You guys are asked to do some crazy shit, stuff people in the private sector can't even begin to fathom. Yet along comes Capt. Honors, a former F-14 and Super Hornet driver, XO and Skipper of a f'n carrier and because someone thinks his videos were offensive the Navy yet again has to change and the Capt.'s career is potentially over? That's not right. As a cop I deal with the PC shit A LOT! That, like you guys is how we deal with stress, by laughing at it, laughing at ourselves, laughing at the idots we deal with. Every dead person call I go to they always have to be naked, it's gross. It's also sad that someone passed away, someone's father or mother died. A drunk guy gets hit by a train and is killed, again someone's father dies. How do we as copers deal with it, we joke and laugh about it. Is it cruel? Yea. But that's how we deal with it. That's something the PC police don't understand.

 

[wlawr005]

Navy deployments are hard, but I wouldn't go so far as to liken them with coping with death and destruction all the time. We're not in a foxhole in Afghanistan. The biggest hardship I ever endured (aside from missing my family) was knowing who to trade porn mags and x-box games with.

It's awesome that the Captain was well-liked, and that he genuinely cared about his sailors...but that's not a great defense for shit and dick jokes on CCTV and youtube.

 

[das]

The following is NOT an official PAO statement and another reason to be careful on Facebook groups!! :bigeyes_1
"This guy was great and no one was offended. I support and loved the videos” wrote RM, (Actual quote and real name withheld, but real name and quote stated in the newspaper story :bigeyes_1:bigeyes_1:bigeyes_1!!!)

Agree always to be extremely careful of what one posts to social media (or anywhere on the commodity internet), but the Navy has a pretty forward-thinking policy on unofficial participation in social media by DON personnel...why should every thoughtful comment on a social media site have to be cleared with PAO? Individual Sailors interacting responsibly on social media, blogs, forums, etc. are the Navy's best advocates.

DON PERSONNEL ARE ENCOURAGED TO RESPONSIBLY ENGAGE IN UNOFFICIAL INTERNET POSTING ABOUT THE DON AND DON-RELATED TOPICS. THE NAVY AND MARINE CORPS PERFORM A VALUABLE SERVICE AROUND THE WORLD EVERY DAY AND DON PERSONNEL ARE FREQUENTLY IN A POSITION TO SHARE OUR SUCCESSES WITH A GLOBAL AUDIENCE VIA THE INTERNET.

[...]

DON PERSONNEL ENGAGED IN UNOFFICIAL INTERNET POSTING ABOUT THE DON MAY IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS DON PERSONNEL BY RANK, BILLET, MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL SPECIALTY, AND STATUS (ACTIVE, RESERVE, CIVILIAN, ETC.) IF DESIRED.

People should be able take advantage of that, even in controversial situations like this one. Of course, what you say, even if it's "allowed", can still come back to bite you...but that's true whether Facebook exists or not. My issue is warning people away from participating in forums such as official (or unofficial) pages on Facebook because they "might" be seen by someone: that's the whole point, and people need to understand that what they post on social media sites might as well be broadcast to the world — or in a New York Times article.

 

[HercDriver]

I love how this controversy is so obviously reflected in everyone's POV. In this thread I've seen comments regarding:
DADT
Congress
Political Correctness
Libs
Gays
The Media
Civilians

The story that was broken indicated that the video was lewd, full of cursing, had simulations of same sex showering and gay slurs...and it met all of those descriptions. This isn't some newspaper stretching the truth, or the left-wing media grinding an axe - this video can be seen as controversial to much of the population. That ain't political correctness, that is just the plain truth. If someone had asked the good Captain if he wanted an extra copy posted on youTube he probably would have emphatically said "NO!"

So neither Congress nor the Liberals nor the media nor any other of the various boogeymen I've seen mentioned relieved the Captain; his superiors did.

And why? No organization likes controversy, and it is very difficult for any Government organization to stand before the scrutiny of their Departmental Superiors/Congress/a big press conference and defend it. It puts Big Navy in the position where they have to spend political capital to say "Hey, these people are professionals and were blowing off steam...let it go", and have questions asked on why do people need dick/poop/gay/jerk-off jokes to be professional. It is nearly impossible to defend it, and "You wouldn't understand, you've never been underway" doesn't cut it.

 

[feddoc]

http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20110104798080.html

At the bottom of the link, you can read that this whole thing is, apparently, about womens rights. Next to last paragraph.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

A4s, I wish I could let my feet do the walking today, it would be $1.7M self initiated kick in the nuts, and an outright admission of defeat. Maybe some can carry on some assemblance of the "old school" tradition until put to pasture.

Although I will have to continue "sucking d*ck for beer money" for a few more years, containing PC loathing as best I can, I will take comfort in slowly, carefully composing my meaningless reasons for retirement letter.

This uber-sensativity by the public sector, and by a weak, warrior coat tail riding sector of our military who could never dream of rising to the level of talent required by CAPT Honors position will be specifically cited.

When a Fighter squadron's shirts couldn't read: "I'm a TOMCAT guy and you're GAY" we started losing soul.

The ass kickers day in the limelight is soon over. The "thinkers" are coming into their own. They will spend a lot of time contemplating about hitting the pickle button in hate, and contemplating why we lost.
Depressed.

 

[coolhandlukesd]

Godwin's law has finally reached its apotheosis here. Seriously? Are the granolas going to be packing up all those non-PC "warriors" out there and hauling them away in boxcars to get gassed to death and cremated? The slippery slope argument only takes one so far. Let's drop this line of reasoning.

Ok I agree..sorry about that.

What I am trying to Illustrate is when good people don't do anything, bad people will walk over them for what ever their reasons my be.




Gay groups praise Navy's condemnation of videos
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/03/AR2011010305366.html






CDRSalamander
http://blog.usni.org/2011/01/03/if-he-is-a-problem-then-we-have-a-problem/

 

[Flying Toaster]

The questions also becomes what is the example this is really setting? Who do you want to attract to serve? As a future officer (hopefully) this is what I've learned from this thread/incident-


Don't rely on your superiors to back you up.

Consequently, don't take risks.

Regardless of the best of intentions, don't do anything that could ever be construed as offensive. Yet killing somehow isn't offensive?

Leadership is about coddling every single person's feelings. Even at the expense of everyone else.

Not offending anyone is far more important than being a good leader and getting the mission done.


Yes he could have been more tactful, that's pretty obvious. A small slap on this wrist and "don't do it again"? Perhaps. Did he need to be canned? Hell no. Right now I'm a member the American public and I'm offended that a good leader was canned at a time of war to appease a bunch of special interest groups. What do I get?

Everytime the PC patrol gets a result like this it only encourages them to go further. They will NEVER be appeased. It will keep getting worse until a large enough number of people are willing to stand up and just say no.

 

[bert]

I can't muster a lot of outrage in either direction on this. On the one hand, the worst thing that is going to happen to him is that he will be retired as an O-6. Not exactly the worst "punishment" in the world. While I do wonder whether he thought the vids would never get out, thought the fact that the CO/Adm embarked didn't spank him hard meant he was covered, just figured he had been 1 of xx for so long he was untouchable, or if he genuinely didn't think anybody would be bothered, he is a big boy, made his choices, and he can live with the consequences (just like any airmen who stood in front of him at mast).

Seems to me his superiors at the time would have earned a spanking of their own to match what he ends up with, but we all know "different spanks for different ranks" is alive and well, so my guess is that if his firing satisfies the media's urge for scapegoats then this will be forgotten fairly quickly.

Finally, while I can't say I've got much sympathy for him about his manner of exit, I will say this: the guy has got to be 50+ years old, and has probably spent a huge chunk of the last 28 years at sea - including damn near every year since he turned 40 which I was never interested in doing. However ingloriously he is exiting I appreciate his service.

 

[das]

Navy official release (included here for convenience):

USFF Relieves USS Enterprise Commanding Officer
Story Number: NNS110104-07
Release Date: 1/4/2011 2:59:00 PM
From U.S. Fleet Forces Command Public Affairs
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=57937

NORFOLK (NNS) -- Adm. John C. Harvey Jr., Commander, United States Fleet Forces Command (USFFC), has permanently relieved Capt. Owen Honors of his duties as commanding officer of USS Enterprise (CVN 65) for demonstrating poor judgment while serving as executive officer of that ship.

"The responsibility of the commanding officer for his or her command is absolute. While Capt. Honors' performance as commanding officer of USS Enterprise has been without incident, his profound lack of good judgment and professionalism while previously serving as executive officer on Enterprise calls into question his character and completely undermines his credibility to continue to serve effectively in command," said Harvey.

"The foundation of our success in the Navy lies in our ability to gain and hold the trust of our Sailors, including through personal example. This responsibility is so important that it is written into Navy Regulations. When confidence and trust are lost in those who lead, we fail. After personally reviewing the videos created while serving as executive officer, I have lost confidence in Capt. Honors' ability to lead effectively, and he is being held accountable for poor judgment and the inappropriate actions demonstrated in the videos that were created while he served as executive officer on Enterprise," said Harvey.

"It is fact that as naval officers we are held to a higher standard. Those in command must exemplify the Navy's core values of honor, courage and commitment, which we expect our Sailors to follow. Our leaders must be above reproach and our Sailors deserve nothing less," said Harvey.

Capt. Dee Mewbourne will be permanently assigned as the commanding officer of Enterprise. Mewbourne most recently commanded USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) and while in command he completed two successful combat deployments supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. Mewbourne is currently serving as the chief of staff for Navy Cyber Forces and will assume command of Enterprise this afternoon.

"We will support and work with Capt. Mewbourne and the crew of Enterprise to keep them forward focused on their upcoming combat deployment. This is a difficult situation but the men and women of Enterprise are outstanding Sailors who have completed a very challenging and comprehensive predeployment work-up period in a thoroughly professional manner. They are well-trained, and I have full confidence in their readiness to execute all missions during their deployment," said Harvey.

The relief of Honors occurs as the investigation continues into the inappropriate videos that Honors made while serving as Enterprise's executive officer from 2006-2007. The investigation will continue to look at all aspects of the production of the videos, to include the actions of other senior officers who knew of the videos and the actions they took in response. Honors has been reassigned to administrative duties at Commander, Naval Air Force Atlantic.

For more news from U.S. Fleet Forces Command, visit www.navy.mil/local/clf/.

 

[m26]

if he genuinely didn't think anybody would be bothered

He pretty much said that wasn't the case in his video.

Finally, while I can't say I've got much sympathy for him about his manner of exit, I will say this: the guy has got to be 50+ years old, and has probably spent a huge chunk of the last 28 years at sea - including damn near every year since he turned 40 which I was never interested in doing. However ingloriously he is exiting I appreciate his service.

Agreed. This is a point the fringe groups calling for his head could stand to think on for a moment.

 

[CAMike]

CDR Salamander in that USNI link posted by coolhandlukesd summarized the situation pretty accurately.

Consider this for a moment:

Let's say the PAO-Wobble factor continues on it's present course and the Navy as a whole acclimates to the newer lower tolerance of politically incorrect actions that it's currently on. Are there any folks on this site (other than newbies) that haven't said something or behaved poorly in a random politically incorrect manner at least "once" during their career? Um- the Black Angus near Roosevelt Roads? Top Floor of the Sheraton Barbados. Oh those nice little hole in the wall bars in Malaga Spain filled with women that have poor dental plans? Now sure we have some super special exceptions to the rule but I dare to say that most of us have at least walked by these places and at minimum- inhaled the ambiance, no?

So- Who here feels confident that their professional specialty skill set and wonderful personality alone will allow you to reach your potential in the NAVY? The sword seems to have three edges these days. I dare say that if we continue on this present course and speed we're destined to:

1. Derail careers of proven leaders.
2. Make otherwise qualified candidates choose to leave the Navy early.
3. Never choose to serve at all.

At some point a reasonable head at the top must take a stand and put a stop to this selective media fueled career assassination. You see in the big picture it doesn't matter which side of the debate you're on. Not standing up to support a teammate is unprofessionally and I submit- we are ALL professionals, current and former makes no difference. Today I emailed the office of Ray Mabus, as his published office phone number seems to belong to someone else. - How about you?

 

[das]

Perhaps a timely article (even if not totally on-point):

Why Our Best Officers Are Leaving, The Atlantic, Jan/Feb 2011

Why are so many of the most talented officers now abandoning military life for the private sector? An exclusive survey of West Point graduates shows that it’s not just money. Increasingly, the military is creating a command structure that rewards conformism and ignores merit. As a result, it’s losing its vaunted ability to cultivate entrepreneurs in uniform.

This is an Army-focused article, but some of the lessons are not service specific.

 

[OnTopTime]

Are there any folks on this site (other than newbies) that haven't said something or behaved poorly in a random politically incorrect manner at least "once" during their career? Um- the Black Angus near Roosevelt Roads? Top Floor of the Sheraton Barbados. Oh those nice little hole in the wall bars in Malaga Spain filled with women that have poor dental plans? Now sure we have some super special exceptions to the rule but I dare to say that most of us have at least walked by these places and at minimum- inhaled the ambiance, no?

Scenario 1:
Some JO, after one six pack too many, does something stupid at the Black Angus. Maybe it even gets catured on video and uploaded to youTube. (I've been to the Black Angus a couple of times, thankfully way before there ever was such a thing as youTube or cell phones with video recording capability.)

Scenario 2:
CAPT Honors, an O-6 CVN XO, while completely sober and week after week, writes and stars in videos of questionable taste using Navy video equipment, and then he has the videos broadcast to the entire crew of the CVN. And by the way, one of his primary duties is promoting good order and discipline.

Not same-same.

 

[HercDriver]

When a Fighter squadron's shirts couldn't read: "I'm a TOMCAT guy and you're GAY" we started losing soul.

I'm sure you typed this histrionic nugget straight-faced, but it's the funniest thing I've read on this thread.