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Deciding between USNA and USAFA

BlueDog58

New Member
How rigorous/often is training at USNA/USAFA compared to ROTC? I'd like to go either way, but I still want that college experience and I'm worried that the Academies take away from that. I know ROTC training is fewer days, and I'm not concerned about difficulty, because I know I can take it.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
How rigorous/often is training at USNA/USAFA compared to ROTC? I'd like to go either way, but I still want that college experience and I'm worried that the Academies take away from that. I know ROTC training is fewer days, and I'm not concerned about difficulty, because I know I can take it.

The service academies do a six-ish week training program. Naval Academy it's called Plebe Summer, not sure what the Air Force calls theirs...

Navy ROTC recently changed their training and now most, if not all scholarship candidates attend a 3-week New Student Orientation in Great Lakes (same place where Navy enlisted boot camp is) prior to the start of college/NROTC.
 

Lionel Hutz

Active Member
pilot
How rigorous/often is training at USNA/USAFA compared to ROTC? I'd like to go either way, but I still want that college experience and I'm worried that the Academies take away from that. I know ROTC training is fewer days, and I'm not concerned about difficulty, because I know I can take it.
The service academies do a six-ish week training program. Naval Academy it's called Plebe Summer, not sure what the Air Force calls theirs...
Guru answered the initial training question. However, the ongoing training at USNA vs. ROTC is vastly different, from your daily/weekly routine to your summers. If you want anything remotely approaching "that college experience", USNA is the wrong place for you. Signed, USNA grad and former ROTC instructor.
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Guru answered the initial training question. However, the ongoing training at USNA vs. ROTC is vastly different, from your daily/weekly routine to your summers. If you want anything remotely approaching "that college experience", USNA is the wrong place for you. Signed, USNA grad and former ROTC instructor, attorney and lover of the brown liquors.
Fixed that for ya.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Guru answered the initial training question. However, the ongoing training at USNA vs. ROTC is vastly different, from your daily/weekly routine to your summers. If you want anything remotely approaching "that college experience", USNA is the wrong place for you. Signed, USNA grad and former ROTC instructor.

All four years at the academies you will operate on a fairly rigid schedule with designated meal and activity times in addition to your class schedule, in which attending class is mandatory without an an excuse. Your weekends can also have activities scheduled, football game attendance was (still is?) mandatory for example, and there is a curfew as well. Those rules relax quite a bit as you progress through the years but they never go away completely until you graduate.

It is a joke at flight school that academy grads have a somewhat stunted maturity level and unfamiliar with how to live in the real world, like many jokes it does have a bit of truth behind it. As a military college grad myself I can relate, a little bit.
 

BlueDog58

New Member
Guru answered the initial training question. However, the ongoing training at USNA vs. ROTC is vastly different, from your daily/weekly routine to your summers. If you want anything remotely approaching "that college experience", USNA is the wrong place for you. Signed, USNA grad and former ROTC instructor.
I see. What would weekly training routines look like for USNA/USAFA and let's say Auburn University NROTC look like? Just want to know what I need to be prepared for and get myself physically capable in advance.
 

BlueDog58

New Member
All four years at the academies you will operate on a fairly rigid schedule with designated meal and activity times in addition to your class schedule, in which attending class is mandatory without an an excuse. Your weekends can also have activities scheduled, football game attendance was (still is?) mandatory for example, and there is a curfew as well. Those rules relax quite a bit as you progress through the years but they never go away completely until you graduate.

It is a joke at flight school that academy grads have a somewhat stunted maturity level and unfamiliar with how to live in the real world, like many jokes it does have a bit of truth behind it. As a military college grad myself I can relate, a little bit.
That level of rigid rules and regulations sounds pretty unpleasant to me. I need a little more freedom as I'm accustomed to having so many responsibilities that I just kind of have free roam almost without my parents being too worried about where I am. I don't think I'd adjust well to that level of strictness, but it probably isn't as bad as I make it in my head. I'd put up with that though if that meant I get a good shot at fighters.
 

Mos

Well-Known Member
None
I don't think I'd adjust well to that level of strictness, but it probably isn't as bad as I make it in my head.
Go to college and live free four years. Nothing wrong with that so long as you don't get into any trouble. But understand that once you commission, you'll live by the military's rules. You'll be treated more like an adult than at a service academy, but you'll still have restrictions on your life that civilians don't have to deal with. And you may or may not get to fly fighters. Just food for thought.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
but I still want that college experience and I'm worried that the Academies take away from that.

That level of rigid rules and regulations sounds pretty unpleasant to me. I need a little more freedom as I'm accustomed to having so many responsibilities that I just kind of have free roam almost without my parents being too worried about where I am. I don't think I'd adjust well to that level of strictness...

Dear God, do not go to the Academies, then. Trust me, as someone who did and then went NROTC because I realized the overall (valuable on some accounts) experience wasn't worth it to me, ROTC, of whatever flavor, is what you're looking for.

I've mentioned it in another thread recently, but doing "just college" and then going OCS was probably not the right choice for me, as I needed a little bit of stress to push me along, which seems to be up your alley. So I do not regret resetting to University of College Life and having to figure out how to balance school, a girlfriend(s), and some median level of booze to get to where I wanted to be.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I did the OCS route because I knew I wanted to fly, and I didn't want to run the risk of being medically DQ'd while at the Academy/NROTC or being "drafted" into a different community. It all depends on your personal calculus of what level of risk you're willing to accept in order to have all/some of your education paid for by big Navy.

But if you're concerned about missing a "normal" college experience, fear not, as I'm sure most people on here will attest, flight school is basically another 2-3 years of college-style life, except now you're making sweet sweet O-1 pay. ?
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
You can go to the academies and cram 16 weeks of hard military training into four years…or just get a solid education paid for by NROTC and the chance to cheer for a decent football team. Either way, I’ll honestly respect you for joining the club.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
That level of rigid rules and regulations sounds pretty unpleasant to me. I need a little more freedom as I'm accustomed to having so many responsibilities that I just kind of have free roam almost without my parents being too worried about where I am.
I went the AOCS route after college.

In college I took a semester off and ski bummed, I spent a summer working in Glacier National Park and hopped freight trains home at the end of it, worked in a bar with live music every night through college (Kings Head Inn in Norfolk, for any old guys) and a slew of other self-programmed unsupervised adventures. I think living that life of independence was a positive for growing up. All of this was compatible with ROTC, although I didn’t do it.

No question the academies train great leaders, but there’s something to be said for kids playing sandlot baseball with pickup teams over travel sports with helicopter parents.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
That level of rigid rules and regulations sounds pretty unpleasant to me. I need a little more freedom as I'm accustomed to having so many responsibilities that I just kind of have free roam almost without my parents being too worried about where I am. I don't think I'd adjust well to that level of strictness, but it probably isn't as bad as I make it in my head. I'd put up with that though if that meant I get a good shot at fighters.

Go to college and live free four years. Nothing wrong with that so long as you don't get into any trouble. But understand that once you commission, you'll live by the military's rules. You'll be treated more like an adult than at a service academy, but you'll still have restrictions on your life that civilians don't have to deal with. And you may or may not get to fly fighters. Just food for thought.

The farther I am removed from the Academy the more I realize it basically prepared me for life underway. It's regimented, long, busy days. as many days underway are. There's a good deal of fun and cameraderie too.

With that said, I wanted to echo what @Mos said; realize that no matter which route you take, once you commission, your liberties and freedoms are significantly curtailed compared to the average civilian college graduate. Realize the Navy will run a fairly rigid schedule on you in flight school and beyond.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
As someone who initially wanted to be a Navy officer, and whose friends are probably 50% formal Naval Aviators, I know I would have really enjoyed a Navy career. I even tried to do an exchange to the Marine Corps (I was a finalist, but the exchange was cancelled).

I can also assure you that I believe my Air Force career was more epic than i could have ever imagined.

USAFA grads that are medically qualified are encouraged to take a pilot slot. While on active duty, I recall UPT students from USAFA quitting UPT because they didn't want to be there, but were pushed into going. This still happens.

The ubiquitous Bob Norris quote. It shows up here every 6-9 months, and is always a great read. It was written 40 years ago, so keep it in perspective. Your career won't be defined by the hottest chick in Singapore (and that's assuming "she" isn't a female impersonator), so make an adult decision on which Service will best suit your personal style, desire, and career objectives.

And as for scarves... they are comfortable and look WAY better than those cranials the Navy/Marines wear the moment they get near a flightline. I'm amazed I've avoided a head injury for so long without one! And don't get me started on the ancient ejection seat harness the Navy uses. Amazing.

Good info from Squirrel Girl. Update: no one is currently getting RPA's out of AF pilot training. I would also say that only about 15% of UPT grads are getting fighters.

Fighter options are F-22, F-35, F-16 F-15E and A-10. I'm pretty sure no one from active duty is getting an F-15C anymore since those are sunsetting.
Bombers are B-1, B-2 and B-52... though B-1 is sunsetting, so maybe not an option now or in the near future.
Heavies: C-17, C-5, KC-135, KC-46, C-130, EC-130, RC-135, E-8, C-21, C-12, E-3. With the KC-10 sunsetting, I doubt those are being offered much anymore.
SpecOps: HC-130, MC-130, AC-130, U-28, C-145, C-146 and maybe other fairly unknown stuff that they fly.
FAIP (what you would call SERGRAD): T-6, T-1, T-38

Here's the Active Duty assignment drop for Columbus' UPT class 2 weeks ago:
KC-46 x 2
C-5 x 2
C-17 x 2
KC-135 x 4
E-3 x 1
C-146 x 1
T-1 x 1
T-38 x 1
T-6 x 1
C-130 x 1
U-28 x 1
C-21 x 1
A-10 x 1
F-16 x 2

Here's the Vance AFB assignments from November:
C-130J, Little Rock
C-130J, Ramstein
HC-130J, Davis-Monthan
C-17, Charleston
C-17, McChord
C-17, McGuire
C-21, Ramstein
C-5M, Dover
C-5M, Travis
KC-135, Fairchild
KC-135, Kadena x2
KC-135, March
KC-135, Mildenhall x3
U-28, Hurlburt x2
T-6, Vance
A-10, Davis-Monthan
B-2, Whiteman
F-16, TBD x3
F-22, Eglin
F-35, Luke
T-38A, Langley (this will likely turn into an F-22 assignment after ~2 years).

I didn't include Guard/Reserve assignments on the above lists.

Disclaimer: past results are no guarantee of future performance.

But @HuggyU2, you're not answering the most pressing and important question: What percent get U-2s? :D

At least we can say words like 'head' and 'box' without giggling or saying "so to speak". :D

I will never understand those "jokes."
 
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