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NEWS Death of the dog fight?

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
A neat little video feature by The Wall Street Journal on evolution of Air to Air...


So when the AF dude in the beginning talks about merge/dog fight being a "contingency" - is that opinion or doctrine?
 

Python1287

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
A neat little video feature by The Wall Street Journal on evolution of Air to Air...


So when the AF dude in the beginning talks about merge/dog fight being a "contingency" - is that opinion or doctrine?
Dogfighting in and of itself is not a mission. There is no mission to go out there and dogfight. A dogfight is a possible result of a larger aerial battle, but not the going in game plan. That was a bit simplified, but that’s the gist.
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
Here's what I learned about going to the merge and/or having to VID as a young CONE in the FRS-

Someone is going to die. It might be your lead- hopefully it wasn't from your missile. But you're -2 and the other guy has a -2 and now it's a fight for your life. Don't run out of gas. Don't hit the ground.

Guns kills are hard when they're set up as practice in the beginning, and even harder when the other guy gets to maneuver.

Dear lord this is really hard and lead is really good, maybe one day I won't die if I have to do this for real. But damn if I am not having a shit ton of fun practicing. And that one time lead called "blind sun" and I called "visual continue" followed by a completely bungled up series of fox and pipper calls I secretly knew I was a true zipper suited sun god.

Then the debrief happened and I realized how much I sucked all over again.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Here's what I learned about going to the merge and/or having to VID as a young CONE in the FRS-

Someone is going to die. It might be your lead- hopefully it wasn't from your missile. But you're -2 and the other guy has a -2 and now it's a fight for your life. Don't run out of gas. Don't hit the ground.

Guns kills are hard when they're set up as practice in the beginning, and even harder when the other guy gets to maneuver.

Dear lord this is really hard and lead is really good, maybe one day I won't die if I have to do this for real. But damn if I am not having a shit ton of fun practicing. And that one time lead called "blind sun" and I called "visual continue" followed by a completely bungled up series of fox and pipper calls I secretly knew I was a true zipper suited sun god.

Then the debrief happened and I realized how much I sucked all over again.
You can't start your post with that first sentence and expect anyone to take it seriously.

"Dog fighting" is an exercise in energy manangment with an emphasis on understanding the performance capabilities of both your own and the adversary's aircraft. Proper weapons employment and merge mechanics docturnially are designed so that you never arrive at a neutral merge with an adversary aircraft, but if you do it's nice to know where you have advantages and disadvantages. Plus, it's a lot of fun.
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
Did you re
You can't start your post with that first sentence and expect anyone to take it seriously.

"Dog fighting" is an exercise in energy manangment with an emphasis on understanding the performance capabilities of both your own and the adversary's aircraft. Proper weapons employment and merge mechanics docturnially are designed so that you never arrive at a neutral merge with an adversary aircraft, but if you do it's nice to know where you have advantages and disadvantages. Plus, it's a lot of fun.
...Wait... what part of that post suggests anyone to take it seriously?!

I'm a UAV guy who didn't get himself killed in the legacy Hornet FRS syllabus. And apparently I tried twice at the boat.

You should take anything I say about the fighter community as seriously as one would take the grounds keeper
(played by Bill Murray) in Caddy Shack. We all know he loves golf- but that dude is also missing a chromosome or two...
 

GroundPounder

Well-Known Member
Gunga. Gunga Galunga.
Got to hang out with him a little at a golf event we have here in town. This sounds stupid, but he can do that bit better than the movie. He is a funny MFer.

Not manic crazy, trying to take over the room, just funny. If you didn't know he was famous he would still be someone you would remember hanging around with.

He will live to 100, I can assure that whatever small amount of stress he has in his life is managed by a little whisky. ( and possibly botanicals )
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
A neat little video feature by The Wall Street Journal on evolution of Air to Air...


So when the AF dude in the beginning talks about merge/dog fight being a "contingency" - is that opinion or doctrine?
Any number of things can be considered a contingency. If you want to consider BFM/SEM (ACM for blue suiters) a contingency then it is a contingency worth maintaining proficiency in (IMO).
 
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