Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
My family's access to hospital care is more important than their self-righteousness.
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COVID-19
- Thread starter Treetop Flyer
- Start date
You ever scuba dive, ski, snowboard, surf, play contact sports, ride motorcycles, rock climb, shoot or own firearms, speed while driving?
All of those are statistically risky activities. Could you live with yourself if you got hurt doing one of those and it prevented or delayed a heart attack victim from accessing care?
This 'access to care' argument is 1. Really fucking stupid because every decision we make entails risk and reward 2. Not borne out by the average ICU capacity and loads pre and post COVID.
Not to mention it further divides the nation along tribal lines. Grace is a two way street. If you've written off a couple hundred million Americans in your delusional self-righteousness, don't be surprised if they don't mind if you disappear from the face of the earth, too. That's a dangerous path to go down, and we are barreling down it.
Like I said previously, these are NOT vaccines . . . . .
So dramatic
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Roughly 7,200 American people die each day. I don't give a shit because I don't know them. I also don't expect them to give a shit about me.
I do give a shit when I can't take my kids to the doctor because people don't want to take an FDA approved vaccine that is clinically proven to reduce the chance of serious illness or death by at least a factor of 10. Our politicians have decided in this country that people don't have a right to healthcare, so let's make a deal...we don't make anyone get a vaccine, but then they can't use up healthcare resources if they get sick with COVID. Sounds fair, right?
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That's a nice straw man you've built there. Are you unable to see a pediatrician because an ICU somewhere else is at 94% capacity?
Maybe you can't get your kids in to see a doctor because they fired 30% of their staff and support people for not wanting to get a vaccine.
The Nature article you posted repeatedly refers to the treatments in question as vaccines. Yet you apparently offered it to support your contention they are not vaccines. Help a bro out here.
I think someone has been visiting alternate belief websites.
“Vaccine hesitancy can be due to a lack of knowledge, false religious beliefs, or anti-vaccine misinformation.”
None of those activities have occurred in numbers that restrict hospitals from giving care. Covid has all over the country. None of those are contagious. Covid is.
Quoted from the UK article you linked to (good find), pg 7,…”As described above, several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
From the intro to the charts, pg 13, “The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths is not the most appropriate method to assess vaccine effectiveness and there is a high risk of misinterpretation.”
The Nature article talks about transmission once infected, which dwindles. It doesn’t talk about getting infected. Probability of transmission = prob you get it x prob you transmit if you get it.
It’s certainly apparent that COVID-19 has been successfully used- I believe intentionally- to divide us even further.
Be human. Don’t be somebody’s useful idiot by demonizing your own fellow citizens.
I’m sad for the future of our country. Not being melodramatic, just really sorry to see things have gone this way. We aren’t the same place I grew up in, and there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. Whatever America is, and will be, is different.
Be human. Don’t be somebody’s useful idiot by demonizing your own fellow citizens.
I’m sad for the future of our country. Not being melodramatic, just really sorry to see things have gone this way. We aren’t the same place I grew up in, and there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. Whatever America is, and will be, is different.
The flu is contagious. The common cold is contagious. They could both put people in the hospital. Should we decline care to flu patients since they were too stupid to get scientists' best guess of which flu strains we need to vaccinate for? Are they automatically Very Bad People because they caught an infectious disease and got unlucky enough to need care? I'm just trying to figure out what is different about Covid versus every other infectious disease in the past.
The holier than thou routine from the coronabros is getting a little thick. You got a shot that might still slow transmission; that's your choice. I got my shot, too. I don't fault people for asking questions when Pfizer execs sit on every major media board. Oh yea, they also sponsor most of the FDA's regulatory review. Oh yea, they have a vested interest in terms of billions of dollars of profits the more inaccessible society becomes if you go without their wünderdrug.
Acting like the FDA couldn't possibly get something wrong is laughable, especially when you see the top people there resigning in protest because of political pressure being leveled against a supposedly apolitical regulatory agency. OxyContin worked out great. Darvon, cylert, and vioxx were all FDA approved. The scientists are not infallible, and screeching at people who point that out and want an honest risk assessment isn't helping anyone. Nor is relying on the police power of the state to enforce your vision of the common good.
This article helps explains it pretty well. Excerpt below:
“To work in academia, as I have for the last three decades, is to be surrounded by people who truly believe that the words one exchanges with others are as existentially weighty and consequential as physical assaults upon the body. This not only shows how few of them have ever been in a real brawl, but how blind they are to the fundamental role that physical violence and/or the looming threat of its use has always played in the game of coercing the many to bend to the will of the few.
And this is why so many of them, parroting the moralizing, if factually tenuous, talking points supplied to them by a deeply corrupt media establishment, are so nonplussed about the physical assaults upon people’s bodies now taking place in the name of “fighting Covid.” It is also why a disturbing number of those whom they teach truly believe that hearing someone utter a critique against an ideological construct that another person told them was good and correct is much more problematic than forcing someone to be injected with an experimental drug under the threat of losing their livelihood.”
Zerohedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
Regarding the UK data, I am not saying that the vaccines do nothing to stop infection, and therefore stop transmission. They do a little for a short period of time. Which means they're better than nothing. But if one argues that we mandate the vaccine for a marginal gain in preventing transmission, then it follows that we must continually mandate boosters (as we will be soon it seems... they're already talking about changing the definition of fully vaccinated). Since it seems obvious to everyone now that COVID isn't going anywhere, this means we will either need to mandate boosters every 3-6 months until the end of time, incurring risk of deadly side effects each time, or eventually give up the game of mandates. Unless, of course, someone comes up with a vaccine that prevents infection altogether which would let us end COVID. My guess is that won't happen without economic pressure on the vax makers, which of course isn't happening any time soon. Why spend money developing a vax to end the thing when the gov might force people to buy their shots every 3-6 months forever?
Regarding your quote from pg 13... see the above. I agree with you and the authors that the vaccines are effective... at preventing severe symptoms in many people. That is not a reason to mandate a vaccine. That would be akin to taking the donut out of someone's hand and shoving an asparagus down their throat while shouting "This is good for you!"
If you look at the data, though, you will see that the vaccine stops being effective at preventing infection rather quickly. And it is never good at preventing transmission if infected. So, put your formula to use and tell me... does the vax meaningfully decreasing the probability of transmission after 3 months? If you answer no, then tell me this... what is the impetus for a vax mandate, if you think there is one?
720,000 dead and counting, and it's not over. It's that simple.
The vaccine turns it into a nothingburger, and yet we will lose a couple of hundred thousand more, completely unnecessarily.
I get it. Have at it. Just don't pretend that was unavoidable.
And if no one ever had unprotected sex we could eradicate all STDs and STIs. We could mandate condoms for everyone! That layer of protection, plus making intravenous drug use illegal, could also end HIV/AIDS in America!
I mean, sure we’d stop making new Americans, but the benefit is worth it! No more unnecessary illnesses and deaths caused by sex!