Considering my future and FTS, questions for the masters

[tasty danish]

Greetings 99,

I've been lurking on this forum for years and years but never post as all my questions were always answered by a search. However now I'm older and a bit (only a little) more experienced and I would like to ask for some perspectives. I've read all the FTS gouge and feel I have a decent handle on it.

Ok so about me:
Currently serving my first sea tour in HSM, it may be a bit early to really start digging into this but I'm awful curious. I'd like to start really weighing the pros and cons of my follow on tours and be able to talk intelligently to a detailer when the time comes.

I don't want to sound like every swinging wang that comes on here asking about TACAIR/SEALS/Blackhawk down/etc etc etc, but being in HSC-84 sounds like a sexy sexy time to me. I love the history, the missions, I've met a couple HAL guys at museums, shindigs, etc so that's always been a bit of a pipe dream for me. Alas out of HT's I got picked up for HSM, no harm no foul, bloom where you're planted and I like where I am, but as you all know pipe dreams don't just die.

At this point in my career the "terminal O4 professional aviator" route sounds much more appealing than the money of following a golden path. Current gouge from the detailers is there is an ice-cube's chance in hell of an HSM guy being released to go anywhere, so it sounds like if I ever want to go that route, I'll have to drop a letter and roll the dice on an FTS slot after my commitment is up.

My question then is this: going back to VT's after this and flying the T-6 and teaching the nuggets sounds like a really awesome time to me, however there is that certain dissociated tour afterwards. Would spending 3 years fixed wing, followed by a stint out of cockpit hurt me if I tried to go FTS HELOS down the road? Or would my hours, and (assuming I get) strong paper carry me?

Would it be a better route to aim for weapons school, become a SWTI and have a continuous chain of grey helo time under my belt (super JO tour I mean)? Both are appealing, I'm just trying to narrow it down.

As a bit of a follow on: I understand trying to cheat the system and doing like a flying PEP tour after your shore gig is career suicide to AC guys, would it go over the same for FTS selection?

I appreciate the input, and thank you in advance

 

[Gatordev]

At this point in my career the "terminal O4 professional aviator" route sounds much more appealing than the money of following a golden path.

Because the community is so much smaller, there is some attrition, but being a terminal O4 professional aviator is much hard now. Promotion rates have gone way up and there's an expectation that you follow a similar career path as the AC side (minus the disassociated...which you will probably get anyway now due to Wings +8). This is kind of crap, at least on the Helo side, because you only get one (for HSL) or two (for HSC) paths to being a hardware unit CO.

Current gouge from the detailers is there is an ice-cube's chance in hell of an HSM guy being released to go anywhere, so it sounds like if I ever want to go that route, I'll have to drop a letter and roll the dice on an FTS slot after my commitment is up.

That's the case right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if that continues.

My question then is this: going back to VT's after this and flying the T-6 and teaching the nuggets sounds like a really awesome time to me,

It is.

however there is that certain dissociated tour afterwards. Would spending 3 years fixed wing, followed by a stint out of cockpit hurt me if I tried to go FTS HELOS down the road? Or would my hours, and (assuming I get) strong paper carry me?

Going VTs isn't going to hurt you to go FTS HSL or HSC. However, it might hurt you for HCS, especially if you got a non-flying disassociated. I'll have to defer to the HCS guys on what they think. Obviously timing matters, as well.

Would it be a better route to aim for weapons school, become a SWTI and have a continuous chain of grey helo time under my belt (super JO tour I mean)? Both are appealing, I'm just trying to narrow it down.

I empathize with having to factor in the disassociated tour to the equation. I didn't have to deal with that, and I see a lot of people struggle with that. That said, I'd say ask to go to the place that interests you. If SWTI/WWS interests you, do that. If TRACOM interests you, ask for that.

As a bit of a follow on: I understand trying to cheat the system and doing like a flying PEP tour after your shore gig is career suicide to AC guys, would it go over the same for FTS selection?

It's just like everything else...if you consistently have weak paper, it's going to work against you. If you have strong paper out of your first tour, it's going to help. Obviously your quals/record factor in too.

 

[ssnspoon]

I'll pile on. Think ahead, sure, but be sure to chose the tours (of those realistically offered to you) that YOU want, NOT that you THINK will get you what you want.

I did exactly what you said, I saw there were no out quotas from HSM, so I dropped my letter. The Navy then basically said "Hey, don't just leave, want to apply to FTS?" Why yes I do! I did get selected, but it was a long shot (and I knew it). I had great paper, so I thought I had a good chance of making it, but I had just come from HT's so I was helo current and had already networked, so if the Navy called my bluff, I was ready for a job hunt.

It seems to me they put the prior HT guys into VT squadrons and vice versa on this board. I am assuming this is for more "well rounded" aviators for the career progression piece previously mentioned (FTS follows a more normal path now).

All that being said, plan the career you want, assume and plan for contingencies, aggressively follow out your plan.

 

[tasty danish]

Gator:

When you say HCS I assume you mean HSC-84 and 85. What confuses me is if I'm not mistaken, there is no vanilla FTS HSC squadron, they are all highspeed guys correct? In which case the VT to dissociated tour may be a bad move. Also, isn't a PEP tour damn near treated as NON-OBS and thus weak paper no matter what?

ssnspoon:

I love your advice about do what you want not what you think will hook you up. Where I stumble is what I really want simply isn't possible now, and what would make me enjoy life most now would probably prevent what I want later.

 

[Gatordev]

I continue to make the distinction between HCS and HSC so that the two tracks aren't confused. While they are all "HSC," it helps differentiate between the other HSC Reserve units. Besides -84 and -85, there is also HSC-3 SAU (which has a few FTS billets) and HSC-3 SCORE (which does range/log missions out of San Diego). SCORE used to be what HC-85/HSC-85 did before they rebranded to the SOF mission. SCORE has everal FTS DH billets as well. SCORE also had some growing pains when it was moved out of -85, but it sounds like a lot of that has been fixed/is improving once they were moved to -3.

My understanding is that PEP is treated as a NOB. How much that matters for FTS now, I'm not sure. Historically, the board didn't look too hard at the shore tour FITREP because they were generally not great because people were making it known they didn't want to stay AC and COs will bump them down to make room for guys who are. With disassociateds here now, I'm not sure on how much that's happening.

Got your PM...will reply when I get a chance today.

 

[ssnspoon]

ssnspoon:

I love your advice about do what you want not what you think will hook you up. Where I stumble is what I really want simply isn't possible now, and what would make me enjoy life most now would probably prevent what I want later.

I really hate saying it this way, but remember that staying in may NOT be the right thing. If you do everything right, you will get a Commercial/Instrument rating before you hit the fleet, helos too if you are that flavor. If your goal is to fly and not really to be an admin professional/project manager (read Naval Officer), plan for your eventual departure from active duty. If you are not happily employed, neither the Navy nor you are being served by your continued employment. Plan ahead for happiness, and go find it. That being said, you have plenty of time and programs to utilize (GI Bill, TA, Various masters programs, etc) to transition to anything...the world is your oyster, shuck it and suck it, just don't choke on the pearl.

 

[Pags]

There's also HM (both 14 and 15 have reserve components) and doesn't 21 have a reserve component as well?

 

[Gatordev]

There's also HM (both 14 and 15 have reserve components) and doesn't 21 have a reserve component as well?

-21 was what I was hinting at with SCORE. They're under -3 now.

Historically, HM took only HM dudes. I've been told recently (in the last year) that it's been mixed up a bit after some "attention" from higher ups there recently. I can't confirm that, but based on what I was told, getting in there as a non-HM dude could be easier now than before.

 

[Pags]

-21 was what I was hinting at with SCORE. They're under -3 now.

Historically, HM took only HM dudes. I've been told recently (in the last year) that it's been mixed up a bit after some "attention" from higher ups there recently. I can't confirm that, but based on what I was told, getting in there as a non-HM dude could be easier now than before.

Ok, then the move from 21 to 3 must've been recent.

My buddy went FTS and was hoping to go back to HTs. He was surprised to get selected for HM. I've heard on on the active side that HM has purposefully received "injections" of non-HM guys to address some concerns so I wouldn't be surprised if the sAme was happening in the reserves.

 

[Gatordev]

Ok, then the move from 21 to 3 must've been recent.

Correct...last 3-4 months or so.

My buddy went FTS and was hoping to go back to HTs. He was surprised to get selected for HM. I've heard on on the active side that HM has purposefully received "injections" of non-HM guys to address some concerns so I wouldn't be surprised if the sAme was happening in the reserves.

That's what I've heard as well on the RC side.

 

[xmid]

Going VTs isn't going to hurt you to go FTS HSL or HSC. However, it might hurt you for HCS, especially if you got a non-flying disassociated. I'll have to defer to the HCS guys on what they think. Obviously timing matters, as well.

So is there a way for a VT guy to get back in the running for FTS HCS? I've heard they may be allowing guys to take PEP tours as a 3rd tour. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

 

[Gatordev]

So is there a way for a VT guy to get back in the running for FTS HCS? I've heard they may be allowing guys to take PEP tours as a 3rd tour. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Note: I said "might." I don't know if it will or not. I'd say talk to the individual unit. That's >50% of working a Reserve gig, FTS or SELRES.

 

[llnick2001]

Note: I said "might." I don't know if it will or not. I'd say talk to the individual unit. That's >50% of working a Reserve gig, FTS or SELRES.

Couldn't second this more. If you want it, rush.

 

[tasty danish]

So is there a way for a VT guy to get back in the running for FTS HCS? I've heard they may be allowing guys to take PEP tours as a 3rd tour. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Word from my detailer (hsm community) is they are discouraging PEP as a shore tour and moving toward it as a dissociated tour type of thing. My gut says it will become a third tour equivalent of what station SAR is for your shore tour now: good deal, great flying, bad paper. Though maybe HCS might appreciate the stick skills. I wouldn't be the guy to ask that.

 

[insanebikerboy]

FTS...on one board you may need to have had previous 84/85 experience to get an FTS slot there, the next board an HSL/HSM guy with no 'SOF' experience could get a slot no problem. Both have happened.

My point, the tides change so much with the FTS accession boards that it's hard to say right now what will be successful in a few years.

The FTS board is a little bit different because they do look at active duty experience and that experience can make a difference on boards. However, the active duty records released to the board/dropping a letter, etc, etc, can change the dynamic and numbers of people available for selection. In the end the FTS side does need bodies to fill billets so prior experience can be moot.

Keep in mind that going SWTI means you won't be able to apply to 84/85 after your time at the weapon's school or NSAWC. That's the current detailing policy.

My advice would be to try and get orders for what you will enjoy. Keep in mind your bigger picture goals, i.e., if you want to stay active Navy and vie for XO/CO, if you want to do something a little different, and what all of those choices will lead to.

Your path to 84/85 isn't impossible because like anything in the Navy and even more so on the FTS boards, timing matters.