Confusion about joining Marine Corps

[suave a]

Hey everyone,
I am new to this website and I have been reading things which are new to me about being an aviator in the Marine Corps. I recently passed my ASTB and am scheduled to take my PFT in June. Anyways, I had questions regarding what I have heard about having a ground position FAC during my potential 8yr contract. I personally would just like to fly-I know what the Marines are about and that is why I chose the Marine Corpe over the other branches. Does anybody have more informtion about this FAC position?

 

[kimphil]

Originally posted by suavea82
Hey everyone,
I am new to this website and I have been reading things which are new to me about being an aviator in the Marine Corps. I recently passed my ASTB and am scheduled to take my PFT in June. Anyways, I had questions regarding what I have heard about having a ground position FAC during my potential 8yr contract. I personally would just like to fly-I know what the Marines are about and that is why I chose the Marine Corpe over the other branches. Does anybody have more informtion about this FAC position?

FAC isn't obligatory. If you want to fly, then you can take a billet after your first tour that involves flying (IP, test pilot, etc.)

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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[splendid_splinter]

kimphil.. you're passing a lot of bad information. i don't doubt that you try to stay informed, but most of the time you speak from inexperience.

it actually is a challenge for marines to stay in the cockpit after their first tour. typically, as far as b-billets are concerned.. you will possibly be an oso, go back to tbs, go back to ocs, go to the drill field, be a fac which was mentioned, or be an air officer for a grunt unit. in order for marines to return to be a flight instructor they need to do a hardship tour. which is the fac gig, long-term deployment overseas, or in some cases the air officer job. there are alot of other duties that go along with being a pilot. get the idea of showing up to work, going up for a hop, then bellying up to the bar outta your head.. (although there are occasional days like that)

 

[kimphil]

Well then I stand corrected.

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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[Frumby]

Your chances are EXTREMELY slim that you will have a flying job on after your first tour. There is a FAC quota and it will be filled. The choice is yours to PCS, if you get selected for school, to Quantico or to take a FAC billet, remain at home and drive to Pendleton or Lejeune. If your at Beaufort then you are SOL regardless. It's only a year and it will enhance you professionally. Guaranteed. By the way, it was one of the best tours that I had in the fleet. Semper, Frumby Aviator/Battalion Air Officer/FAC

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

 

[DBLang]

Is FAC anything like ANGLICO Frumby?

 

[Jafar]

What are the odds of getting OSO duty after a first tour? Call me crazy, but I think that would be a great job. All of the non-flying billets that aviators fill seem like they'ed be interesting, but OSO would be my first choice. How would one go about trying to get that? It seems it wouldn't be to easy as there really aren't that many OSO's total.

My OSO once said to me, "Because your package is such a pain in the ass, you are going to be cursed with being an OSO!"
And I thought, "Cursed! Hell, I'd LOVE to have this job."

 

[BRM21o]

Which B-billet is the best for being promoted to Major? Do you need a Masters? If you want to stay in, do they generally let you?

 

[phrogdriver]

I'm an IP now. Never took a FAC tour, nor did the three other pilots from my squadron who came down to Milton w/in 3 months of each other. Out of the 10 pilots in my peer group who joined the squadron for the same first deployment, 4 are IPs, 1 is at test pilot school, and 3 are at Amphibious Warfare School. 1 is currently on a FAC tour, to be followed by AWS (now officially called EWS). 2 others did FAC tours and returned to the squadron after a year off.

I don't consider 30% to be that overwhelming a percentage. The two that did a year as FAC, then returned, were semi-involuntary. The other one volunteered because he likes the FAC stuff.

As long as you send in your picture, pass the PFT, do your PME requirements, and don't have adverse material on you, you WILL make major. Don't sweat it. LtCol is a little harder, but as long as you keep a mainstrem career path, it won't be that hard. Command selection is really where the wheat gets pulled from the chaff, or the chaff gets pulled from the chaff, depending on how you look at it.

Best career enhancing B-billet for an aviator is probably MAWTS-1 instructor, then FAC, followed by RAG IP, then flight school. RAG IP and flt school IP are kind of neutral--don't help, don't hurt. OSO, drill field, grad school, etc, are somewhat off the beaten path.

Best way to get a masters is part-time, not taking time out of your MOS. The other good way is to go to a normal service school, like Command and Staff, and do a thesis, which can get you a masters as well.

Phrogs phorever

 

[wanaBpilot]

I don't understand why, after spending all that money on training, they would put you somewhere besides the cockpit. How long are the tours? And how long do you spend doing you after tour duties? I guess I look at things logically, and wonder why money would be spent on training, and then the pilots no longer fly?

 

[dvl_dog_2531]

Why do a not flying rotation or two? Prolly cause you will be a Marine, first and foremost. Ever hear the expression "Every Marine a rifleman"? It is very true.

Doing non-flying tours may not make you a better pilot from a technical skill POV, but it makes you a better Marine. I'd argue this improves your skill as a Marine aviator because you are better able to understand and SUPPORT Marine infantry, which is basically what being a Marine aviator is all about.

 

[phrogdriver]

If you have your act together, you probably won't be FORCED into a non-flying billet. If your command wants you gone, guess who gets first servings of the S%$t sandwiches? Just like flt school, the #1 guy usually gets his choice, while everyone else gets what's left.

Keep in mind that the USMC wants to groom aviators for increasing responsibility over the course of a career. Most leadership jobs, even sqdn CO, are not based on capability wiggling the sticks, but on leadership and administrative ability. You have to learn that stuff sometime, which means non-flying jobs.

You can stay in flying billets a long time, if you like. Just realize that you may be retiring as a major, vice as a LtCol. Squadron to IP to Squadron to SAR/C-9/C-12, etc is poss, but isn't going to get you a CO's desk. If that's your bag, more pwr to ya, just be aware of where you're going. Either way, career-enhancing or cockpit junkie is fine. As Seinfeld said,"Not that's there's anything wrong with that!"

Phrogs phorever

 

[46Driver]

Just remember timing is everything. Frumby is probably the only other one who remembers the drawdown in '91 - '92. The Corps went from 200k+ to an estimated 155k personnel (ended up at about 172k). What did that mean? Almost nobody could stay in during that time - we had 36 pilots in '94 go up for augmentation and only 2 (that's TWO) were augmented - promotion to major was about 50-50 at best. You did your contract length and then were out. In other words, nothing is guaranteed. Who knows: Hillary could be elected in 2008 and the military downsized....

I agree with everything else above. You can stay in a flying billet your entire time (it does take timing and a little luck) but it is not as good for your career as a ground tour and appropriate level residence schools.

 

[EA-6B1]

You can stay in flying billets a long time, if you like. Just realize that you may be retiring as a major, vice as a LtCol.

Does this mean in your eight years of service most aviators (Pilots and NFO's) make it to Lt. Col?

- Quote on being selected for an OCS spot -
"If you are chosen, you will have been chosen by Men 'who have been there and done that' and have decided that they wished to have you in Their company, there is no such medal worth as much."

 

[46Driver]

The percentage selected for each paygrade (O-4, O-5, O-6) annually can be seen in MARADMIN messages (you might be able to get to them on www.usmc.mil). Currently, off the top of my head I would say it is 90% to major. Of that 90%, figure 70% to LtCol, and of that, figure 50% of those remaining to Col. (That is a very rough estimate over the last couple of years.)