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bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Tactical proficiency means next to nothing on a CO's FITREP - it just isn't what the Navy cares about.

As for switching on your first tour, failing to leave your first tour with a competitive EP is supremely difficult to overcome. Doesn't mean it hasn't been done, but it will drag down your record throughout your career. A lot of CO's won't want to "waste" a ticket punch on a guy bailing out of the community.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I've seen guys do it successfully* after leaving their fleet tour. In fact, all that I know personally did it at the end of their shore tour. They were all E-2 guys who go their heads turned by three years flying clown jets in the TRACOM or pointy-nose out at NSAWC. They all went TACAIR, so they just went through their new RAG syllabus in place of a shooter tour, and are now Super-JOs. If your personal career timing supports doing it that way, I'd say it's a better way to go than trying to do it on the way out the door of your fleet tour. The skippers signing you out from there most likely aren't from your community and thus are less likely to go with a 'death to the disbeliever!' attitude on you.**

* - 'Successfully' in the sense that they got picked up for the transition; it remains to be seen how their screening and career goes.
** - Of course, if you don't get picked up, your community will know about it, and you may as well start looking for civilian opportunities
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Tactical proficiency means next to nothing on a CO's FITREP - it just isn't what the Navy cares about.

With notable exception of the SWIT patch. I've seen plenty of quality folks not screen when SWTI's with lesser packages get command.

So to say that tactical wording on your FITREP is irrelevant, I'll agree. To say that Tactical qualifications have no bearing, then I'll have to disagree based on personal experiences.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
But are SWIT billets really given to the best pilots, or are those billets given to community favorites as another ticket punch?

I've just seen too many instances where "good enough" pilot + cover sheets on all their TPS reports trumped a better stick. Given a choice between a team player who has all his tickets punched and >90% dental readiness vs a known best stick among a given group of DH's and I know where I would put my money.

That isn't an entirely bad thing; a CO has more responsibilities beyond the cockpit. What is unfortunate is that good leadership isn't always the thing that is beating out flying/tactical skills.
 

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I bet a CO's tactical proficiency is more important in the fast mover world than in the helo world (generally) because of the detachment deployment concept. I don't know about the MPRA world.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
I've seen MPRA COs run the spectrum of tactical proficiency--how good of a skipper they are seems to depend more on the "other stuff." MPRA is kind of strange, though, because the difference between a pilot and a FO in the front office(s) tends to be pretty drastic.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Yes, I'm still in the TRACOM. No, I have no idea if after 3-4 years we'll want to get out of either platform that's still available to me. Right now my wife and I are just exploring any and all possibilities that are still available to us to best meet our goals. Just looking for information at this point. Any decisions to be made with that information are still a long way off.

So I'm not trying to being a prying jerk, but you posed the question, so... How do you know you're NOT gonna like whatever community you end up in? If its the location, that usually has a 36 month shelf life on it before you have the opportunity to move somewhere else. Just curious why you're looking to scoot at this point.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
With notable exception of the SWIT patch. I've seen plenty of quality folks not screen when SWTI's with lesser packages get command.

So to say that tactical wording on your FITREP is irrelevant, I'll agree. To say that Tactical qualifications have no bearing, then I'll have to disagree based on personal experiences.

I think tactical qualifications and tactical proficiency are two separate things. I've known some SWTI's that are great sticks and smart, others that are douchebags and not so great in the cockpit. Only time will tell how it falls out for them.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
I transitioned at the end of my HSL JO tour.. Due to going from first T-34 flight to wings in 9 months, I had been a LT just over a year when I left.

I non-selected for LCDR.

I was a 02 YG guy, got picked up for the transition in November 06, left in January 07 (I already had previously been extended 6 months to make a 3rd deployment).

Went to Corpus for a FW refresher. This is where shit got weird. Since I didn't count towards production, I was extremely low priority. It took me longer to get 16 flights in the Turboweenie than it took me to do Primary AND Helo Intermediate (when we still had that).

Then they PCSd me to Kingsville to be one of the first for the "new" Tailhook syllabus. I was to do every block of training, but to move on when I was proficient enough.. Say if there were 19 FAMs and I was safe for solo at 10, 11 is all I did.

I was in Krock for two months.. And then BAM! Tailhook not ready. PCS back to Corpus.

Took about 4 months to do T-44 intermediates.. I did less flights, but they paced me with a "normal" E-2/C130 class until the last month. Basically just skipped cross countries and VNAVs.

Then I went to Krock again, and classed up for T-45s and went pretty quick through BI/RI/Fam, until an instructor thought I was "Too big" and called the flight doc on my FAM check and told the doc I was "Too Big".. Said doc called NOMI WITH MY NAME without ever seeing me, and hilarity did not ensue.

6 months med down, standing RDO every day and building the King CAT.

(For those keeping track, my "year in TX, then off to the RAG" is now at 18+ months before I even start flying again)

By the time I finished Krock and went to VT-120, I was 2 years out of a 42 month sea tour.

For those who have been to VT-120 recently, you realize it's 3 months of training stretched into about a year. I was "lucky" and went through in 10 months. Even though I was a CAT-2, they tracked me with a CAT-1 class. I could have easily done it on the CAT-3/4 timeline and just done the full FCLP thing with the next CAT-1 group that was ready (I did need that.. 42+ days off between events with a CAT-1 class, not so much)

So right now, I was almost 18 months "off timeline" by the time I got back to the fleet for a SuperJO tour compared to what BUPERS thought I would have.

Then I got pulled up a year group due to zone reshuffles. I went into my LCDR screen with one 4 month "competitive" Midpack MP in 3 years. I left my HSL tour with #17 of 28. Midpack MP.. I think (as did my peers) that if not an EP, I was a solid #1MP. (5 or 6 of 28). My CO said "You will get hooked up by your new community, this won't matter" at my FITREP debrief.

Things that hurt that were in my control:
Transitioning off of sea tour.. A VP/HS/HM/Anything But HSL VT CO would probably not have hammered my balls for transitioning, and even if he did, I'd have had better paper off of sea duty.
Not making myself "bulletproof" (EP) on my sea tour. I had to come home from a deployment early due to Manatee problems. I took a hit for that in both JO Jobs and ranking boards. Words to the effect "You are a solid officer and great stick but your family life is a fucking trainwreck" was told to me by the XO (CO when I left). I think he takes your life outside of work into the FITREP process, right or wrong.

Things that were beyond my control:
Moving up a year group. If I had not been moved up, I'd be going into my LCDR board with "rightward progression" and probably an EP or solid #1 MP vice the "you've only been here 4 months, be lucky you are not the anchorman" MP.
Delays in TRACOM.. CNATRA getting schizophrenic about me doing "Tailhook" vice "Legacy E2" was beyond my control. Shit happens.

Would I do it again?

In a fucking heartbeat.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
I don't know how bad they fucked up 02 YG..

I got pulled up and screened in April 10.

The junior 02 guy won't even go up for LCDR until April 2013.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Maritime Patrol Reconnaissance Aircraft - A term that includes P-3 and foreign aircraft involved in that mission area.
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
Out of curiosity:

It looks like there might be two schools of thought as to the timing for least detrimental impact:
1.) Late in JO tour. Ensures highest likely hood of #1 EP, and gets you into and then out of the clown planes the fastest.
2.) Early in your 1st sea tour. Avoids possible backlash from a community proud CO.


It would seem to me that early in your shore tour might be best. An opportunity for one more observed FITREP before going NOB, and potentially avoiding fallout from people in your community who would take offense to you leaving. Also getting a little bit of shore tour time so that when you are compared to others later on you look a bit more like them?

Just my thought... Am I missing something? Or does that say 1 year in the VTs or on a staff not really mean much?
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
Out of curiosity:

It looks like there might be two schools of thought as to the timing for least detrimental impact:
1.) Late in JO tour. Ensures highest likely hood of #1 EP, and gets you into and then out of the clown planes the fastest.
2.) Early in your 1st sea tour. Avoids possible backlash from a community proud CO.


It would seem to me that early in your shore tour might be best. An opportunity for one more observed FITREP before going NOB, and potentially avoiding fallout from people in your community who would take offense to you leaving. Also getting a little bit of shore tour time so that when you are compared to others later on you look a bit more like them?

Just my thought... Am I missing something? Or does that say 1 year in the VTs or on a staff not really mean much?

You're missing something. No way you leave "early in your 1st sea tour." Unless you meant early in your first shore tour.
 
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