Child brides in Afghanistan

[Raptor2216]

But it's not that simple. It's not about condemning it or not, but understanding the context within which it exists. The real question becomes, what do you do about it? We can't just march in and say to a population that has been existing in shambles for decades, "Hello, Afghans. Here's a list of 20 things we don't like about your culture. Change them all by tomorrow or you're all dead." There has to be some kind of progression and it's not going to happen overnight. Certainly by fostering a more modern existence for these people, they will eventually come around, just like the cannibals in Polynesia did.

Brett

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that we should march in to make the change overnight. I also don't think the reporter was trying to imply that we need to force our ways on those people. I knew before watching the video that kids are forced to marry at a ridiculously young age in places like Afghanistan but that doesn't mean everyone is aware. The first step towards any real change is to shed some light on the issue and the video did just that. The underlying problem is poverty, archaic religious ideals, and a near complete lack of education. The bottom line is that we should do what we can to help change some of that and who knows, a small effort might be the catalyst for greater change. I'm not a religious guy at all but I do believe it is the responsibility of modern nations to help out those lagging behind.

 

[Brett327]

I'm not advocating changing their culture. I'm advocating kicking the living shit out of them so they keep their damn culture to themselves.
Some ideologies can not exist for long periods without expandinding into other cultures. Communism is noteworthy in this. Also noteworthy is another culture that has spread over wide areas of the globe twice in history and was only put back in its geographic bottle when completely defeated.
Again, good guys - bad guys. It's time to be one or the other. Not to sit back and contemplate our belly-buttons wondering why we can't just all get along.

Don't confuse the Taliban/Al Qaeda with the general population in Afghanistan. It is a mistake to view them as a monolithic entity. No one is trying to "export" the practice of selling women or child brides. We're not talking about an ideology here, it's a tribal custom. Your logic may apply to Al Qaeda in a sense, but it doesn't apply here.

Brett

 

[Brett327]

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that we should march in to make the change overnight. I also don't think the reporter was trying to imply that we need to force our ways on those people. I knew before watching the video that kids are forced to marry at a ridiculously young age in places like Afghanistan but that doesn't mean everyone is aware. The first step towards any real change is to shed some light on the issue and the video did just that. The underlying problem is poverty, archaic religious ideals, and a near complete lack of education. The bottom line is that we should do what we can to help change some of that and who knows, a small effort might be the catalyst for greater change. I'm not a religious guy at all but I do believe it is the responsibility of modern nations to help out those lagging behind.

I agree completely, although there are some (noted above) who would just as soon carpet bomb the entire country. Not very productive if the goal is to modernize.

Brett

 

[eddie]

Communism is noteworthy in this. Also noteworthy is another culture that has spread over wide areas of the globe twice in history and was only put back in its geographic bottle when completely defeated.

Sorry, I'm confused. Communism or something else was defeated twice?

 

[Huggy Bear]

Sorry, I'm confused. Communism or something else was defeated twice?

I think he means Islam. It was stopped by the Franks in the 700's from spreading northward out of Spain and into Europe. It was stopped again by the Austrians and others in the 1400-1500's from spreading out of southeast europe and into the rest of europe.

 

[ACowboyinTexas]

OK, I'll give this thread one more shot and then ya'll can have it.

Eddie,
I said Communism is noteworthy. Also noteworthy is ANOTHER culture... Obviously this other culture wouldn't be communism (which is actually an economic system, not a "culture", but still, an ideologythat combines economics and social order). What I was speaking of was the spread of Islam in the 7th and 17th centuries thorughout most of Europe.
Brett,
I never mentioned carpet-bombing anyone. I'm a much bigger fan of precision guided weapons. And while I don't think we can kill every Islamist in the world, we can at least push back against them when they are in arms reach. And I don't mean pushing back against some goat-herder taking a child bride. I could give a crap about him. The Islamists aren't trying to export the idea of child brides - they are trying to export the idea of sharia law. Islam is more than a set of rules for the governance of a relationship with Allah. It is a complete system of political, economic and social law, and, for Islamists, it is incompatible with other beliefs. They are ascendant in Islam and they have to be defeated.
As far as the "It's their culture" thing, I can sure as hell call it AFU, confident in the superiority of my culture - even without having to blow theirs up. Keep arguing that "child brides" and some of the other wonders of their culture are only "sad" to us "self righteous" westerners. Good luck with that.
P buh18,
Some decent notions, but why do you feel the need to say you aren't religious before you mention our responsibliies?
"I'm not a religious guy at all but I do believe it is the responsibility of modern nations to help out those lagging behind. "
Sounds like a modern version of "The white man's burden" to me. I am very religious and I don't think it is our responsibility to force our way of life on anyone. That is what "helping out those lagging behind" means to the Islamists. They don't want to be helped to modern enlightenment - they see what we have and what we are and they reject it completely.
Now, boys, I know I don't have ya'll's education and experience...oh wait, I do. I'm going to ease off this one publicly. If anyone wants to talk politics, religion or young wives privately, hit me with a PM.

 

[Brett327]

And I don't mean pushing back against some goat-herder taking a child bride. I could give a crap about him. The Islamists aren't trying to export the idea of child brides - they are trying to export the idea of sharia law.

Wait a minute. I thought that's what this entire thread was about - child brides. This has nothing to do with Islam and the practice of child brides transcends religion and ethnicity, as it's practiced all over the lesser developed world. I know it's difficult for you to resist an opportunity to verbalize your hatred for Islamists (a righteous hatred in my view), but that's not what this thread is about. Don't confuse my desire to understand/appreciate the situation and circumstances of these people with admiration for their practices. I know that your first instinct is to throw a rock (or JDAM) at anything you don't understand, but it really is counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve in Afghanistan.

Brett

 

[raptor10]

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afghanistan/090413/setback-afghan-women?page=0,1

 

[nittany03]

OK, the poll was a stupid idea; the discussion was dying, and this is already pushing ready room rules as it is. Poll is closed, and any more asininity will close the thread as well.

 

[Brett327]

OK, the poll was a stupid idea; the discussion was dying, and this is already pushing ready room rules as it is. Poll is closed, and any more asininity will close the thread as well.

I need to vent on this "readyroom rules" concept that everyone keep invoking around here. It's a myth. Everyone talks about sex, religion and politics in the readyroom - it's a basic staple of conversation, so let's not be completely arbitrary about judging the topic of discussion based on some antiquated 1950s era notion of what officers and gentlemen do - as long as it remains civil.

Brett

 

[nittany03]

I need to vent on this "readyroom rules" concept that everyone keep invoking around here. It's a myth. Everyone talks about sex, religion and politics in the readyroom - it's a basic staple of conversation, so let's not be completely arbitrary about judging the topic of discussion based on some antiquated 1950s era notion of what officers and gentlemen do - as long as it remains civil.

Brett

Agree fully, just thought that the poll was over the pointlessness line, as I've perceived it from Web-san in the past.

 

[SkywardET]

Yeah it's messed up, but it's not the worst thing going on there. There's a bazillion other reasons to not want to be born a woman in that country.

Not playing the moral equivalency game, but when the American poet Edgar Allan Poe was 26, he married his 13-year-old cousin. Within the lifetime of many people still alive, the United States had all kinds of messed up institutions. Afghanistan still has a long, long ways to go in its social development. It'll probably come if and when they discover economic liberalism. Maybe not.

Just sayin'.

 

[Deror]

I actually took a walk and came back before typing this because I was too spooled earlier.
Some cultures have practiced canabalism, is that OK? How about slavery? Still allowed in some cultures, notably the one we're fighting against now. That OK with you guys?
For those who think that "That's just their culture, so who are you to condemn it?" I would recommend the book "Winning the World" by Dr. Thomas Nichols of the Naval War College. It dealt primarily with the Cold War, but it's main focus was on incompatible ideologies and how some ideas can't peacefully coexist. If his thesis is true, and I believe it is, then you better be ready to fight for your idea of what is right because that bastard with the 9 year old wife is sure as hell ready to kill you for his.
Good guys - Bad guys. Yeah, it's that simple.

+1. Great post.

 

[picklesuit]

I need to vent on this "readyroom rules" concept that everyone keep invoking around here. It's a myth. Everyone talks about sex, religion and politics in the readyroom - it's a basic staple of conversation, so let's not be completely arbitrary about judging the topic of discussion based on some antiquated 1950s era notion of what officers and gentlemen do - as long as it remains civil.

Brett

Nuke the Gay Baby Whales for Jesus!!!

 

[mmx1]

That type of thought process is what is stifling our troops wrt ROE. If a 14 year old kid discovers your position (as in "Lone Survivor"), the only right thing to do is put a bullet in his head.

WTF. Those guys decided not to. An SF recon team in Anaconda made the same determination for lone adult goatherder - they would not shoot an unarmed civilian, taking him prisoner would alert the family, so the only recourse would have been to let him go and get immediate extract, even at the possible cost of the operation.

I guess you know better.