Change to the age 60 rule?

[HooverPilot]

I know that this has been an issue that has gone nowhere for years, but it seems that it has picked up more support as of late. I'll be interested to hear what HALpilot & A4s has to say about this.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/20/news/fortune500/southwest/index.htm

Southwest backs older pilots?

Report: Low-cost carrier files court brief seeking to end mandatory retirement at age 60.

March 20, 2005: 12:29 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Southwest Airlines will file a friend of the court brief next week in support of 12 pilots who are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the Federal Aviation Administration's requirement that pilots retire at age 60, Time magazine reports. In its online edition, the magazine says the low-cost carrier is the first major airline to support the elimination of the Age 60 rule. "Times are changing," Southwest (Research) spokeswoman Linda Rutherford told Time. "We are losing some really good pilots." The magazine says the Age 60 rule has been in effect since 1959, with advocates such as the FAA believing that pilots begin to lose cognitive and motor skills as they reach that milestone. But Time says critics of the rule say it has only been in effect to take the older pilots, often the highest paid employees of an airline, off the payroll in place of a cheaper, younger pilot. The 12 pilots asked the Supreme Court earlier this month to review their petition to end the rule.

 

[DanMa1156]

Yeah I saw this on the news, it'll be interesting to see how the Feds react and what'll end up happening with this.

 

[A4sForever]

Gray Skies, nothing but gray skies ... ???

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Normally, Washington isn't a town full of obvious win-win solutions. Think tax reform. Think Social Security.

But try this fix on for size. With the U.S. airline industry's economic crisis continuing, airlines are seeking to abandon or restructure their pension plans. Meanwhile, graying commercial airline pilots are feeling pressured by a longstanding Federal Aviation Administration rule requiring them to retire at the age of 60. And the airlines are looking at a big bill for recruiting and training replacements.


So Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) and Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-Nev.) have proposed a rational solution: Tie the commercial pilot retirement age to the Social Security retirement age.

Isn't that unsafe? A little history here might be instructive: The age 60 rule didn't start out as a safety issue. The airlines began instituting age 60 retirement rules as company policy in the late 1950s to avoid the expense of training older pilots, who were soon to retire anyway, how to fly jet aircraft. When that caused labor problems, federal regulators stepped in and obligingly issued the age 60 rule, citing medical data suggesting anyone older could be too senile for take-off. Well yes, and a 50-year-old could have a massive coronary. And a 40-year-old could have a drinking problem. And a 30-year-old...You get the idea. Fitness to fly is one thing, age is another.


Over time, the Air Line Pilots Association came to love the 60 and out rule. After all, pilots at legacy carriers like AMR's American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and Continental Airlines could retire at 60 with fat defined-benefit pensions and start new careers or putter around the golf course.


But times have changed. Pilots at such discount carriers such as AirTran Holdings , JetBlue Airways, and Southwest Airlines want the retirement rule abolished. They have defined-contribution 401(k) retirement plans, which means that the longer the discount carrier pilots work, the bigger their nest eggs. (Defined-benefit plans, by contrast, traditionally have been structured so that the additional pension earned from working past a certain age is minimal.)


Now pilots at the economically strapped old-line carriers are looking at diminished defined-benefit pensions. And ALPA says it is reexamining its position on the FAA's Age 60 rule.


The time would seem to be right for a change.


Gibbons and Inhofe have introduced bills before to boost the retirement age before. Those went nowhere. But this time around, Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.), chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Aviation, has signaled a willingness to hold hearings this Spring on the proposed rule change.

A4s sez: Let the geezers fly. If they want to ....

 

[zab1001]

I think I had that guy in the blue shirt in the middle picture for a BI sim...

 

[Geese]

Isn't that unsafe? A little history here might be instructive: The age 60 rule didn't start out as a safety issue. The airlines began instituting age 60 retirement rules as company policy in the late 1950s to avoid the expense of training older pilots, who were soon to retire anyway, how to fly jet aircraft

I have to wonder how many, if any, pilots under 40 years old have been hired by major airlines in the last 5 years, in fact I'd love to see a breakdown of the numbers. The airlines don't want a young motivated professional pilot that they can mold, they want an old timer that they don't have to pay retirement to, that already has a billion hours and knows how the game already works.

 

[Kycntryboy]

A4s sez: Let the geezers fly

Hey its true what they say. Although their slow and dangerous behind the wheel, senior citizens can still serve a purpose in life... I'll be right back..don't you go dying on me.. :icon_smil

p.s. thats the last time I try to pick apart something to quote, A4's got so much code on those posts.

 

[A4sForever]

My greatest fear of flying past age 60 is that my crew will use the AirTaser on ME --- to rouse me for landing.

 

[HAL Pilot]

My greatest fear with pilots flying over 60 is that it will delay my recall from furlough......

Having said that, they had the job first and should be able to fly for as long as they want/are physically able to.

 

[gregsivers]

I think I had that guy in the blue shirt in the middle picture for a BI sim...

HAHAHAHA he does look a little familiar. Not quite sure which one, as they're all about that old.

 

[beau]

well I say bump it up to 65, and but make the pilot take a physcial more often to make sure they are tip top......my father is closing in on 60 and he is flying for SWA. He was thinking about trying to get on board to bump up the mando retire age. Sad day for a pilot no doubt!

 

[A4sForever]

well I say bump it up to 65, and but make the pilot take a physcial more often to make sure they are tip top......

Baloney!! Then what do we do with all the "under 60" guys who presently "$and-bag" their phy$ical$ with paid-off FAA AME'$ ??? Start giving them "REAL" physicals ??? A whole bunch would then bust their medicals --- where they currently PA$$. If you are going to tighten physical standards for the "over the hill gang" -- more post 60 guys will fail , as would many who now fly on the south side of 60 years old ...

So where is the benefit ??? I/"we" already take two (2) 1st class medicals a year -- how many more would you reccommend??? How many more would make us "safe" ???

How is it that when I am 59 1/2 years old I am good to go within the "normal" parameters .... and 6 months later I am an addled, drooling old fool that must be scrutinized more often ??? It doesn't make any logical sense --- but I can see something like that happening as politicians and bureacrats attempt to curry favor with the largely ignorant flying public .....

Personally, I really don't want to fly past 60 -- I will only do it if forced. I already have my "retirement $$$" and working longer is of no financial benefit. I am working on two books, I have a life, I have many interests outside of Aviation. The only head-fake toward post-airline Aviation I might make is to buy a Stearman. But I am ready to get out; as in yesterday. I have been doing the Orient/Pacific for over 20 years -- the airlines for over 27 years and I am burned out. I don't want to fly for the "man" and then drop dead @ 62 years old. A lot of pilots -- my friends --have done just that.

That said ..... Give me 5-10 hours (probably less) in an A-4 or A-6 right now and I can outfly 99% of the people on this forum TODAY --- and we won't even talk about the B747 ... Oh, well , MEGO (my-eyes-glaze-over) there is so-o-oo-o-o much bad information and misunderstanding out there on this issue ..... :captain_1

 

[Olie1968]

ALPA is conducting a poll of its membership on the age 60 issue. I am 58 1/2 and have no desire to fly past 60.

 

[skidkid]

Hey A4s, We can go fly Helicopters together meet me at the SAN 090 at 50nm 200' guns only, Ill email you the shot validation charts. :icon_smil

I cant see this being a huge issue, I owuld think most guys would want to retire at 60 and enjoy life. I never thought I would post here but it got kinda interesting

 

[A4sForever]

ALPA is conducting a poll of its membership on the age 60 issue. I am 58 1/2 and have no desire to fly past 60.

Correcto-mondo ..... but ALPA is going to "go along to get along" with increasing the retirement age --- BELIEVE IT !!! The ongoing "discussion" within ALPA is for show and form --- the decision has already been made. I know what I'm talking about on this one ... not blowing smoke.

The only question extant is how is it going to be implemented? Who, if anyone, will be "grandfathered" into the age 60 rule?

 

[A4sForever]

Hey A4s, We can go fly Helicopters together meet me at the SAN 090 at 50nm 200' guns only, Ill email you the shot validation charts. :icon_smil

I cant see this being a huge issue, I owuld think most guys would want to retire at 60 and enjoy life. I never thought I would post here but it got kinda interesting

Actually, you would be surprised at how many guys want to fly until they die. They have no life other than the airlines. Their very identity is shaped by being able to say ... " I AM AN AIRLINE PILOT" !!!

Other than that .... it really IS a big deal as nearly ALL retirement plans are keyed to age 60. Even the Feds are involved in this one as they, the airlines, and ALPA have meddled with TEFRA and other considerations.

As far as the challenge is concerned ... do I have to get my shot-card updated ???