Plus, what light twin out there gives you back in performance what it takes away from your pocket book on maintenance, and don't even start with increased reliability.
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Buying a Piper Cub
- Thread starter HuggyU2
- Start date
Plus, what light twin out there gives you back in performance what it takes away from your pocket book on maintenance, and don't even start with increased reliability.
I have a little experience in owning baby bug smasher planes so I guess I'll chime in. I bought a '46 Cessna 140 three years ago as a project and its only now on its feet (wings?). But I like working on old planes and I had an A&P that looked over my shoulder and helped me do a lot of the work.
Look at insurance. Tailwheel planes are expensive. I think I'm paying a little over $1000 a year. Obviously it goes down if you have a bunch of tailwheel time. A fabric airplane will have to be in a hanger too but it sounds like you have that covered. I've always thought J3s were way overpriced but they look cool and have a nostalgic appeal. Fun on floats too :icon_mi_1
Specifics on the Cub? Look at the struts. I think there is a reoccurring AD on them for rust/corrosion but you can get sealed struts from $$univair$$ that fix it for good. Early Cubs had wooden spars and should really be dye checked if they are still in the plane. If it's a '46 I would guess that it has metal spars but check anyway.
In the mean time I recommend this article:
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/ClassicCompCub.html
Look at insurance. Tailwheel planes are expensive. I think I'm paying a little over $1000 a year. Obviously it goes down if you have a bunch of tailwheel time. A fabric airplane will have to be in a hanger too but it sounds like you have that covered. I've always thought J3s were way overpriced but they look cool and have a nostalgic appeal. Fun on floats too :icon_mi_1
Specifics on the Cub? Look at the struts. I think there is a reoccurring AD on them for rust/corrosion but you can get sealed struts from $$univair$$ that fix it for good. Early Cubs had wooden spars and should really be dye checked if they are still in the plane. If it's a '46 I would guess that it has metal spars but check anyway.
In the mean time I recommend this article:
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/ClassicCompCub.html
In a Seneca 1 you are lucky to get it to take you that far!
Sure $42000 is a great deal for a 62 year old airplane
.. but in all seriousness if you have the partnerships to get something like this, and the mission dictates a real mover, you might also consider a Johnson bar Mooney, ect ect. I had a 62 M20C, great bird, just make sure with whatever you get don't pre-buy it if you have the $, spend the coin and get an annual...and by someone who specializes in what you are buying, it will save you some headaches in the future. Also, from the tailwheel side of the house, if some of your partners are not TW guys, you are going to get hammered in insurence for a good while. Given your T-6 time you should be fine... Finally and most important, make sure you can get non-commercial insurence for a 5 owner partnership. I was trying to get a 3 owner partnership on a C152 2 years ago, and was told I was going to have to get commercial insurence. It was a deal killer for me because of the $3500 difference between private and commercial insurence.
After all that is taken care of, you should have some smooth sailing.. I've spend some time in champs, and supercubs, some of the most fun I've had yet... fwiw if you are interested in the fast mover side, the M20C was 145kts on 9GPH... not a bad deal for a 2+2 that cost $39,000
.. but in all seriousness if you have the partnerships to get something like this, and the mission dictates a real mover, you might also consider a Johnson bar Mooney, ect ect. I had a 62 M20C, great bird, just make sure with whatever you get don't pre-buy it if you have the $, spend the coin and get an annual...and by someone who specializes in what you are buying, it will save you some headaches in the future. Also, from the tailwheel side of the house, if some of your partners are not TW guys, you are going to get hammered in insurence for a good while. Given your T-6 time you should be fine... Finally and most important, make sure you can get non-commercial insurence for a 5 owner partnership. I was trying to get a 3 owner partnership on a C152 2 years ago, and was told I was going to have to get commercial insurence. It was a deal killer for me because of the $3500 difference between private and commercial insurence.After all that is taken care of, you should have some smooth sailing.. I've spend some time in champs, and supercubs, some of the most fun I've had yet... fwiw if you are interested in the fast mover side, the M20C was 145kts on 9GPH... not a bad deal for a 2+2 that cost $39,000
Yes, but becareful with this. The lawyer who took care of some of the setup for me was explaining how LLCs are viewed in different states, and the only thing it really saves you from is if someone else has the accident. If its you, technically they are coming after your LLC, which is most likely bankruptish as you pay into when you fly, but that money is going out for maintenance, gas, ect. AND whomever can also sue the PIC outright for neglect ect...
Huggy,
I own a 45' J-3C with a Continental A-65. Mostly stock with several bush mods though. PM me and I can give all the details you need. 46K for a Cub is hard to fathom. The LSA movement has ridiculously upped the base price for a decent Cub, but there aren't but a couple of Cubs in the whole country worth $46,000. The accepted base price for a flying Cub in any conditon is 25K, and it goes up exponentially based on fabric age, engine times, etc. Corrosion in the tube structure, fabric and engine are the three big factors that will suck 30K out of your pocket faster than anything once you get your 46K baby home. An A&P who knows Cubs (not just airplanes) is essential for the pre-buy. Sporty's sells a book written by a very knowledgeable guy regarding pre-buys on Aeroncas and long-wing Pipers.
A Cub burns 4 GPH for the A-65, 5 GPH if you're running a C-85 or C-90. No matter what engine, you aren't going anywhere fast in a Cub, but that's half the charm. The metal spars aren't a major advantage. The original spruce are just fine. I still have the original spars installed with no cracks or splinters. Some say the wood spars even ride a little smoother in rough air.
I throw about $7/hr into the maintenance fund each time I fly. It's not really going to help with the 10K engine overhaul, or the 12K re-cover, but it soothes my conscience.
I'm a fairly high time tailwheel guy and my insurance runs about $900/ a year through AUA. Yours will be based on the liability incurred by the least experienced taildragger pilot in your group.
I did several spread sheet only to determine that it would be much cheaper to rent the Cub at the local FBO for $68/hr as opposed to my $90/hr after all thing considered, but I couldn't put down a price on how much fun it is!
Check out www.j3-cub.com and www.supercub.org. Both are great references for Cubs of all sizes.
Mike-
I own a 45' J-3C with a Continental A-65. Mostly stock with several bush mods though. PM me and I can give all the details you need. 46K for a Cub is hard to fathom. The LSA movement has ridiculously upped the base price for a decent Cub, but there aren't but a couple of Cubs in the whole country worth $46,000. The accepted base price for a flying Cub in any conditon is 25K, and it goes up exponentially based on fabric age, engine times, etc. Corrosion in the tube structure, fabric and engine are the three big factors that will suck 30K out of your pocket faster than anything once you get your 46K baby home. An A&P who knows Cubs (not just airplanes) is essential for the pre-buy. Sporty's sells a book written by a very knowledgeable guy regarding pre-buys on Aeroncas and long-wing Pipers.
A Cub burns 4 GPH for the A-65, 5 GPH if you're running a C-85 or C-90. No matter what engine, you aren't going anywhere fast in a Cub, but that's half the charm. The metal spars aren't a major advantage. The original spruce are just fine. I still have the original spars installed with no cracks or splinters. Some say the wood spars even ride a little smoother in rough air.
I throw about $7/hr into the maintenance fund each time I fly. It's not really going to help with the 10K engine overhaul, or the 12K re-cover, but it soothes my conscience.
I'm a fairly high time tailwheel guy and my insurance runs about $900/ a year through AUA. Yours will be based on the liability incurred by the least experienced taildragger pilot in your group.
I did several spread sheet only to determine that it would be much cheaper to rent the Cub at the local FBO for $68/hr as opposed to my $90/hr after all thing considered, but I couldn't put down a price on how much fun it is!
Check out www.j3-cub.com and www.supercub.org. Both are great references for Cubs of all sizes.
Mike-
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Nice looking plane Stearmann...
Thanks. The best part is there's no phone-book sized NATOPs, no decision by commitee when you fly, don't file a flight plan, no transponder, no electrical system, I don't even have to check WX. If it looks nice outside my hangar, I go fly, the Cub can't go far enough to get into trouble.
I built my house across the street from my hangar so the time from walking out my front door to wheels up (including preflight), is about 20 minutes. It is true aviation therapy. I flown bigger, faster warbirds (T-28, T-6s, etc), that's an all-day affair on top of the $200+ an hr for gas.
I built my house across the street from my hangar so the time from walking out my front door to wheels up (including preflight), is about 20 minutes. It is true aviation therapy. I flown bigger, faster warbirds (T-28, T-6s, etc), that's an all-day affair on top of the $200+ an hr for gas.
I'll pm you with more data, as it rolls in. I'm sure wishing I had bought one about 3-4 years ago: the prices have gone up about $10K since then, it seems.
Our guy with the lowest amount of tailwheel time has about 550 hours t/w, and 2000 hours total. Everyone else is well over 1000 hours with a t/w.
Our guy with the lowest amount of tailwheel time has about 550 hours t/w, and 2000 hours total. Everyone else is well over 1000 hours with a t/w.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Is the U-2 considered T/W?
Damn skippy!!
