No, it's cool. They're cammi-ed up.
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Bronze Stars for PAOs and other tales of award inflation
- Thread starter snake020
- Start date
No, it's cool. They're cammi-ed up.
I guess that not many people have been around too many Army guys, because they seem to be just as bad as the USAF in handing out Bronze Stars and lower awards. I think that just about every Army officer where I now work has received one for meritorious service while in OIF, OEF or the Gulf War, some have multiple. And all but one that I know is an Intel officer, so most did not see a lot of 'front-line' action.
I think that happened on a limited basis at the beginning of OEF but I am pretty sure that practice was soon stopped. Unless I see evidence otherwise, I will assume that is still the case.
Actually, the Army has awarded many times more Bronze Stars than the USAF. And for awards above the Bronze Star, the USAF appears to have done a fairly decent job so far (the DFC is the airborne equivalent of the Bronze Star and I have heard mixed things about it).
A little old, but it gives you an idea of the numbers:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243092/
Official Marine stats:
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/warpress/E56E1B9336E12F5F852571A8005D8BA0?opendocument
P.S. I am having a hard time finding official numbers, anyone else?
When it seems standard for most Navy CO's who do an OIF/OEF tour to get a Bronze Star, or give Intel LT's a Bronze Star, DMSM and an MSM, I don't think we can say much either.
I think that happened on a limited basis at the beginning of OEF but I am pretty sure that practice was soon stopped. Unless I see evidence otherwise, I will assume that is still the case.
Actually, the Army has awarded many times more Bronze Stars than the USAF. And for awards above the Bronze Star, the USAF appears to have done a fairly decent job so far (the DFC is the airborne equivalent of the Bronze Star and I have heard mixed things about it).
A little old, but it gives you an idea of the numbers:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243092/
Official Marine stats:
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/warpress/E56E1B9336E12F5F852571A8005D8BA0?opendocument
P.S. I am having a hard time finding official numbers, anyone else?
When it seems standard for most Navy CO's who do an OIF/OEF tour to get a Bronze Star, or give Intel LT's a Bronze Star, DMSM and an MSM, I don't think we can say much either.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
I thought that the Bronze Star was designed as the ground equivelant of the Air Medal.
Anyone?
The Combat Action Ribbon is the ground equivalent of the Strike/Flight Air Medal. Hence the prohibition on awarding CARs for aerial combat.
The Bronze Star (without the V) is the combat equivalent of the MSM. If you would get a MSM in a non-combat environment for an action, you get the Bronze Star in the combat environment. That is why so many non-front line guys get them.
How can the Air Force not be embarrassed? Giving out top shelf medals like a 2 dollar whore gives out blow jobs is just sickening. I gave my soul in OIF I and prior and I didn't get even get a box of rubber dogshit for it. If only you could wear pros/cons and Fitreps on the front of your uniform.
...Oh yeah, and there's all that business about the Nazi propaganda analogy, too. Some liberal whore like Cindy Sheehan will key in on that. Maybe, if she says whatever she's gonna say eloquently enough (which she won't), she'd be right. We're all a bunch of trained killers that have fallen victim to the US propaganda machine...boo fucking hoo. It's better than being a cocksucking hatemonger who can't get over the fact that reality sucks.
...Oh yeah, and there's all that business about the Nazi propaganda analogy, too. Some liberal whore like Cindy Sheehan will key in on that. Maybe, if she says whatever she's gonna say eloquently enough (which she won't), she'd be right. We're all a bunch of trained killers that have fallen victim to the US propaganda machine...boo fucking hoo. It's better than being a cocksucking hatemonger who can't get over the fact that reality sucks.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Switch to decaf, bro......
It pisses me off, too....but damn
It pisses me off, too....but damn
People come to the Air Force for the atmosphere and the attitude. Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Well, like Airman Snuffy, for example, has 37 decorations. And a terrific smile.
People come to the Air Force for the atmosphere and the attitude. Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Well, like Airman Snuffy, for example, has 37 decorations. And a terrific smile.
"Y'Know, the Nazis had pieces of flair..."
[to merge the 2 subjects]
You are right, I was wrong. The history behind it was that General Marshall wanted something that was equivalent to the Air Medal.
The official history:
http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/BRONZE STAR1.html
Eh, it is somewhere in between the two. You can get the Silver Star for aerial actions (I believe most MiG killers from Vietnam on got one), but you can't get the Bronze Star for aerial actions. The DFC is between the Air Medal/Bronze Star (for Valor) and the Silver Star.
HAL is dead on with the description for the Bronze Star with no V. Basically a 'combat' MSM.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
To further derail this thread.......
I completely agree with the above statement, but if that's the case, how can anybody justify a MSM (embodied as a Bronze Star) given to a 1stLt/Cpl/Airman/Captain/just-about-anybody-that-goes-on-an-IA...... for 6 months of work?
If you wouldn't give them an MSM for it back home, then you shouldn't give them a Bronze Star for it in theatre.
Break.......Squeeze, for the love of God........publish "the write-up" on this board.
Based on that history, I would agree that an individual Air Medal could be considered the aerial equivalent of the Bronze Star but the Strike/Flight is like the CAR.
Navy Awards Manual:
Navy Awards Manual:
(g) The CAR will not be awarded to personnel for aerial combat since the Strike/Flight Air Medal provides recognition for aerial combat exposure; however, a pilot or crewmember forced to escape or evade after being forced down could be eligible for the award.
No CAC card reader on my home PC... and I'm on leave till Wednesday, so no APS access.
I have no idea, maybe you should ask the next 1stLt/Cpl/Airman/Captain that has a Bronze Star without a V?
Folks generally seem to know the story (good or bad) behind the ribbons/medals. I think there are very few awards that signify other than "doing-my-job" status.
Also, the stories behind the ribbons/medals are the best thing about awards. Sometimes the airman with a NAM has a better story than a LCDR with a Bronze Star. I saw an ABHAN scoot under a sliding Hornet and save it from going over the scupper with a tie down chain on KHK in '03. The CO pinned a NAM on him right after flight quarters on the flight deck. That the best use of the awards system I've personally seen.
PS Saw AW while over at Bret's house; glad to be the new guy.
Also, the stories behind the ribbons/medals are the best thing about awards. Sometimes the airman with a NAM has a better story than a LCDR with a Bronze Star. I saw an ABHAN scoot under a sliding Hornet and save it from going over the scupper with a tie down chain on KHK in '03. The CO pinned a NAM on him right after flight quarters on the flight deck. That the best use of the awards system I've personally seen.
PS Saw AW while over at Bret's house; glad to be the new guy.