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Brazilian plane crash (merged)
- Thread starter whitesoxnation
- Start date
If I had access to Youtube out here in Durkastan I'd help out.
I will say what the Brazilian media is reporting that I'm not sure I've seen in the American media - the crisis in their airline sector goes beyond the midair crash last year and this tragedy. When I was down there in Nov/Dec, literally all domestic flights were delayed or cancelled for days and there was mass outrage at the airports (interestingly this had no effect on international travel and I don't recall ever seeing it reported in the American media.) Problems range from the air traffic controllers not getting anywhere near sufficient compensation, dealing with substandard work conditions (and allegedly sabotaging the system to bring greater attention), the equipment for ATC too obsolete in handle today's amount of air traffic, instrument landings being impossible do to equipment failure at airports, etc. Many in Brazil have serious questions about the security of flights in-country, and this disaster adds to them.
Brazil's answer to this is to criminalize aviation safety issues, So already Brazilian authorities are out to prosecute someone for this crash (likely the deceased pilots) - so any hopes of a real safety investigation are out the window!
Would be interested in HAL's or A4s take on all this...
Would be interested in HAL's or A4s take on all this...
It's interesting to see the reactions from the Brazilians. Not much different from the Air Cypriot initial reaction where "pilot error" was the first thing they wanted to release. It wasn't until the rest of the EU started saying they wouldn't allow any planes from the airline into their countries that a thorough investigation ensued.
The rabid nature in which the Brazilian government is defending the condition of the runway raises red flags for me.
I don't know enough about the crash or airport to comment nor have I flown in Brazil.
However, I think ICAO should put a stop to all this prosecution of pilots BS. They are accidents or errors, not criminal acts. If ICAO can not stop the prosecutions/threat of prosecution, then ALPA / IALPA should work to include in pilot contracts prohibitions on flying to these countries.
Now if a pilot deliberately crashed (Egyptian Air comes to mind), that's a different story and prosecution is warranted.
However, I think ICAO should put a stop to all this prosecution of pilots BS. They are accidents or errors, not criminal acts. If ICAO can not stop the prosecutions/threat of prosecution, then ALPA / IALPA should work to include in pilot contracts prohibitions on flying to these countries.
Now if a pilot deliberately crashed (Egyptian Air comes to mind), that's a different story and prosecution is warranted.
Searched for this but I apologize if this has been posted before...
These are two blogs the NY Times reporter started who was on the Legacy that was hit the B737 last September.
http://sharkeyonbrazil.blogspot.com/
http://www.joesharkey.com/ - His travel blog, still has some interesting posts related to Brazil.
Check out the comments, mostly left by Brazilians, I'd say he hit a nerve.
There are a lot of posts which are just articles from different news outlets. I found it to be rather interesting, but I'm a geek like that.
These are two blogs the NY Times reporter started who was on the Legacy that was hit the B737 last September.
http://sharkeyonbrazil.blogspot.com/
http://www.joesharkey.com/ - His travel blog, still has some interesting posts related to Brazil.
Check out the comments, mostly left by Brazilians, I'd say he hit a nerve.
There are a lot of posts which are just articles from different news outlets. I found it to be rather interesting, but I'm a geek like that.
Reverse thruster issue w/ Brazilian planecrash
I've read that one of the engine's thrust reversers was "properly" deactivated and Brazilian aviation laws allow such a plane to fly for up 10 days before an inspection.
My questions are:
1) Is it actually safe to only have one working thrust reverser?
2) Would the FAA allow a plane to carry passengers in such condition?
I've read that one of the engine's thrust reversers was "properly" deactivated and Brazilian aviation laws allow such a plane to fly for up 10 days before an inspection.
My questions are:
1) Is it actually safe to only have one working thrust reverser?
2) Would the FAA allow a plane to carry passengers in such condition?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for a jet.... But having reverse on only 1 prop in a King Air can be "interesting".
It was not unhead of to deactivate two or even all thrust reversers in the E-6. It was never asymetrical, though. If two were deactivated on one wing, they were all deactivated. We didn't take credit for reverse thrust with most of our TOLD data anyway, but with a pair deactivated, we simply threw them out of the equation altogether.
A-4's or someone else with much more heavy jet experience than me can weigh in, but in a two engine jet, there is no way you can stop with just one TR, it has to be both or none. That is a recipe for going off the runway (sideways), as asymetrical reverse thrust WILL get your attention in a hurry, trust me, I have seen it and I puckered up (*) quite a bit.
I wouldn’t say it needs to be "deliberate."
What about crashes as a result of professional negligence or how about just asinine flathatting gone wrong. Look at those SU pilots that get to spend the rest of their lives in jail because they got a bit creative with an air show display and ended up causing the biggest death toll at an air show related event. Im not saying events outside your control are something you can neccesarily hold against someone and Im not making my statement in direct regard to this case in Brazil. But we go after people for negligence all the time on the road why should the air be any different.
Yes, if you take it into account when calculating your performance numbers.
Yes
True, but it can be done via an approved Minimum Equipment List.
Not true. At least not in the civilian world. Never did it in real life in a 2 engine jet, but did it all the time after single engine approaches/landings in the sim. Also have done it in the both 727 and DC-10 where we had a wing engine TR MELed.
I agree with HAL. I've shot several single engine approaches in the CRJ sim and used thrust reverse. Also, the FAA does allow TR's to be MEL'd, even after accidents resulting from them:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX02FA266&rpt=fi
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX02FA266&rpt=fi
I could see doing it in a CRJ, as the nacelles are mounted on the fuselage, not the wing. I have been on a flight on the 707 where a pilot accidentally grabbed three reversers instead of four, leaving one outboard reverser stowed, and we went for quite a ride. I suppose it depends on the airplane, and the A320's engines are mounted fairly close to center.