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Best and worst experiences with flight instructors
- Thread starter Random Task
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phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I've done it in the Phrog simulator. Clearly you have been doing something wrong...
Have you ever shot missiles in the sim? The Miramar sim had the ability to shoot LHAs out of a Phrog. It was pretty bitchin'.
I want in on this. He and I will just pay you in beer to teach us. If you can teach someone who sucks at flying the T-34 to fly a chopper, I'm pretty sure you can teach us.
Good IP: AF IP from Vance on a cross country: Instead of the usual party spots, we took a more scenic route- END-OMA, OMA-MSP, MSP-BIS, VFR from BIS-CYS flying by Devil's Tower and Mt .Rushmore on the way to CYS, then CYS back to END. Once we got to our destination, except for MSP, we stayed in the pattern and practiced landings until the low fuel lights came on. The guy lived and breathed flying and tried to pass the same attitude to me.
I want in on this. He and I will just pay you in beer to teach us. If you can teach someone who sucks at flying the T-34 to fly a chopper, I'm pretty sure you can teach us.
Sorry, shipmate, your opportunity to be an Unrestricted Aviator has passed. I guess you'll just have to return to the AV-8B driver's life of back-to-back IAs, interrupted only by "cockpit" tours during the semi-annual Harrier Redstripe.
I get my back-to-back deployments just fine in my PMOS and SMOS thank you very much.
/knock on wood.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you.If you can teach someone who sucks at flying instruments in the T-34 to fly a chopper, I'm pretty sure you can teach us how to follow roads.
Flight instructors who ride the controls too much definitely suck for students... student frustration tends to be counterproductive to the learning part of flight school... Then you have a few IPs on the fringe who overreact to every little thing and who are clearly in the wrong line of work.
Just keep in mind what sucks even more are inexperienced IPs who don't ride the controls enough, paint themselves in a corner, but don't realize it until it's too late. A lot of our mishaps and near misses go back to good intentions of trying to let a student make mistakes and learn but letting it go too far. Somewhere there's a road that is paved with good intentions or something like that...
The funny thing is most students are savvy enough to tell the difference between good, bad, and new probably better than a lot of instructors realize- a lot like kids who figure out a lot more things than grown-ups give them credit for!
Anyway, getting scheduled with a mix of experienced versus overly cautious new IPs is just one of those necessary evils of flight school.
Just keep in mind what sucks even more are inexperienced IPs who don't ride the controls enough, paint themselves in a corner, but don't realize it until it's too late. A lot of our mishaps and near misses go back to good intentions of trying to let a student make mistakes and learn but letting it go too far. Somewhere there's a road that is paved with good intentions or something like that...
The funny thing is most students are savvy enough to tell the difference between good, bad, and new probably better than a lot of instructors realize- a lot like kids who figure out a lot more things than grown-ups give them credit for!
Anyway, getting scheduled with a mix of experienced versus overly cautious new IPs is just one of those necessary evils of flight school.
Best: USMC Capt. Don Crowe...heck, he's the only one I remember...seriously! Was my Basic Instrument IP ...gave me a terific foundation on which to hone my instrument skills. One day, with me riding back seat in a T-28, under the hood, practicing partial panel unusual attitude recoveries, he faked an LOC episode...as we were rapidly decending toward Mother Earth, he failed to reply to my two ICS calls, I got the message, called "I have the aircraft" and "popping the hood", went VFR, leveled us out, and finally had a response from him. He never said a word about the incident.
Several days later, had my BI-8 mid-stage checkride with a Navy O-4...resulted in thirteen Above Average, and three Average grades, on that checkride!
Capt. Crowe knew his stuff...and knew how to get it across to a fledgling aviator! (He was also a very good actor...as some of you old timers [circa 1961-62] may recall.)
Several days later, had my BI-8 mid-stage checkride with a Navy O-4...resulted in thirteen Above Average, and three Average grades, on that checkride!
Capt. Crowe knew his stuff...and knew how to get it across to a fledgling aviator! (He was also a very good actor...as some of you old timers [circa 1961-62] may recall.)
For me, it was the unannounced riding or snatching of the controls that drove me up a wall. This happened a LOT in ACM. It created a lot of confusion in the cockpit and led to me fighting his stick and throttle inputs. "Does he have the controls now? Do I still have the controls?" I did almost no flying of my own on ACM-02 and it showed on my 3X.
On the other hand, the good IPs would say, "hey man, I'm going to demo this flats entry, but ride the controls with me" or "you're going to feel me influencing the stick a bit, but you still have the controls." Much more productive.
On the other hand, the good IPs would say, "hey man, I'm going to demo this flats entry, but ride the controls with me" or "you're going to feel me influencing the stick a bit, but you still have the controls." Much more productive.
Wow, great thread. I've been sitting through FITC (Flight Instructor Training Course) at NASP for the last two days. Reading all the posts in this thread have been far more productive than the 12 hours or so we spent in class over the last couple of days.
Best IP(s)- The ones who let me figure things out on my own, to a certain extent. I had two, specifically, when I had issues with a certain maneuver let me work on it without commenting, then were able to say, "Ok, now that you have the feel for what you want to do, try this." causing the light bulb to go on. They let me get the "feel of the plane" without being any penalty for those rougher moments when you're figuring things out. They realized that sucking happens a lot before you get good
Worst IPs- The bullies. There have been two. Both acted like they were too good to be instructing students and made it well known that they hated being there and took out their frustrations on students. They didn't explain what you may have done wrong, just that you sucked. Gee, thanks, I have less than a 10th of the flight hours you do, I know I suck, tell me something useful. Ultimately, what I took away from them was not to be an asshole.
Best IP(s)- The ones who let me figure things out on my own, to a certain extent. I had two, specifically, when I had issues with a certain maneuver let me work on it without commenting, then were able to say, "Ok, now that you have the feel for what you want to do, try this." causing the light bulb to go on. They let me get the "feel of the plane" without being any penalty for those rougher moments when you're figuring things out. They realized that sucking happens a lot before you get good
Worst IPs- The bullies. There have been two. Both acted like they were too good to be instructing students and made it well known that they hated being there and took out their frustrations on students. They didn't explain what you may have done wrong, just that you sucked. Gee, thanks, I have less than a 10th of the flight hours you do, I know I suck, tell me something useful. Ultimately, what I took away from them was not to be an asshole.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
As one of the people who has been through more of flight school than most, unannounced control riders piss(ed) me off the worst.
T-34C Worst. Primary 2002.. I had a guy who rode the rudders so hard, I thought I had forgotten to disengage the gust lock.
T-34C Best. Fehrenbacher when he still flew. He was 180 out from the simulator. Shock to most who have only had sims with him.
TH-57B Worst first onwing would not NOT ride the controls. I had 1200+ hours in the Bell 206. It was oh so fucking annoying. Even when I did damn near textbook autos on FAM-2.
TH-57C Best was Steve "Space Cowboy" Miller. He let me and the other student run the show, and the XC to Corpus was probably the best time I had in the first run through CNATRA
SH-60B Worst. Had a HAC on my 1st cruise, who should have been called SAS-3. (SAS-1/2 are AFCS functions in the 60B). He was kind of a shitty pilot, but thought everyone who was "beneath HAC" was worse due to ACTC Quals. He was the absolute worst about treating 2Ps like second class citizens that I have ever dealt with in my career.
SH-60B Best. Had an OIC who would let you do damn near anything that was legal/not retarded to learn more. Not just the same Day Fam River Run every time. He is HSL-46's CO now. One of the good dudes who made it.
T-44, had some throttle/rudder riders. Not as bad, but I think coming back as a winged guy bought me some trust points with most IPs
Worst T-44 was "hey, you know those 3 passes where I did not fuck with you? That was your solo. Now ride in this plane with the scary USAF 1LT SMA while I go take a piss"
T-45 Worst. Asshat who refused to go flying because he did not like how I sat in the jet. 8 months of not flying and NOMI. Thanks Douche.
T-45 Best. CQ LSOs. BMurph and Stump
E-2 Worst. More control riding asshats who shall not be named because I still am in the squadron with them. The people who won't not guard the f'ing throttles at the boat are the worst.
E-2 best. Deuce at the RAG. Best NATOPS Check ever, in terms of learning not just evaluating/fact regurgitation. (and now some E-2 guy is going to shit on me for not calling it a STAN CHECK)
T-34C Worst. Primary 2002.. I had a guy who rode the rudders so hard, I thought I had forgotten to disengage the gust lock.
T-34C Best. Fehrenbacher when he still flew. He was 180 out from the simulator. Shock to most who have only had sims with him.
TH-57B Worst first onwing would not NOT ride the controls. I had 1200+ hours in the Bell 206. It was oh so fucking annoying. Even when I did damn near textbook autos on FAM-2.
TH-57C Best was Steve "Space Cowboy" Miller. He let me and the other student run the show, and the XC to Corpus was probably the best time I had in the first run through CNATRA
SH-60B Worst. Had a HAC on my 1st cruise, who should have been called SAS-3. (SAS-1/2 are AFCS functions in the 60B). He was kind of a shitty pilot, but thought everyone who was "beneath HAC" was worse due to ACTC Quals. He was the absolute worst about treating 2Ps like second class citizens that I have ever dealt with in my career.
SH-60B Best. Had an OIC who would let you do damn near anything that was legal/not retarded to learn more. Not just the same Day Fam River Run every time. He is HSL-46's CO now. One of the good dudes who made it.
T-44, had some throttle/rudder riders. Not as bad, but I think coming back as a winged guy bought me some trust points with most IPs
Worst T-44 was "hey, you know those 3 passes where I did not fuck with you? That was your solo. Now ride in this plane with the scary USAF 1LT SMA while I go take a piss"
T-45 Worst. Asshat who refused to go flying because he did not like how I sat in the jet. 8 months of not flying and NOMI. Thanks Douche.
T-45 Best. CQ LSOs. BMurph and Stump
E-2 Worst. More control riding asshats who shall not be named because I still am in the squadron with them. The people who won't not guard the f'ing throttles at the boat are the worst.
E-2 best. Deuce at the RAG. Best NATOPS Check ever, in terms of learning not just evaluating/fact regurgitation. (and now some E-2 guy is going to shit on me for not calling it a STAN CHECK)
I think I know who you are talking about. Only one instructor comes to mind with the sudden snatching of controls. I remember a FORM flight where I was fighting the stick and throttle the whole time on a join up... On one, I literally just rode the controls and watched the plane join up. His comment? "Good join on that one!" Right.
My biggest pet peeve is the Tech-cedure. Things that are technique, but are preached by some instructors as the only way to do something. Most memorable was how to land the T-34. I remember with one guy It HAD to be Power. Level. Idle. Flare., as four separate movements, or it was an instant below MIF. Although I haven't seen it as much in Advanced.