If chutes are good enough for the A3D, they should be ok for this thing
How did it go? All three die?
Almost as good the bottom out ejection seats the B-52 Navs have.......
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
ATG Javelin
- Thread starter Random8145
- Start date
How did it go? All three die?
Almost as good the bottom out ejection seats the B-52 Navs have.......
So I guess ATG is marketing this to self-important ass-hats.
Random8145
Registered User
Hey guys, I posted this over at another forum I frequent, and this guy who is an F-16 crew chief posted the following:
The only minus would be having to wear a helmet/oxygenmask (above 10,000 feet) and a G suit every time you want to go somewhere. If you were a businessman that would suck. And 6gs is plenty enough to make you pass out without a G suit. And Jets that small don't have their own start systems, and are started with a -60 (dash 60) which is a small turbine powered generator that supplies air and electricity to start the jet.
Tires are about $600 each and last about 20 landings. Then you have to find someone to mount them. Parker Hannifin makes the hydraulic pumps for our F-16s, they only last 1500 hours or so, ours don't even last that long. Looking at 50 grand there. $150 grand for the Power Drive unit to run the leading edge flaps, we go through a few of those a month. Accessory drive gearboxes. I just put a new one in my jet last week, those are about $400 grand, and takes about 20 hours worth the labor to install.
So I wouldn't figure buying one would be all that expensive, but knowing the industry and knowing that our jets fly at 6-9 gs everyday and we throw hundreds of thousands of dollars a day at the jets, I wouldn't think anyone could afford to keep one in the air. Its not like you buy a Honda and they run for 100,000 miles without a hitch, they are such complex machines over 20 miles of wiring run through them. I know they aren't advertising F-16s but looking at the website. its a smaller version of what I work on, I change 10-20 things a week on my jet ranging from $2 from a light bulb to the heads up display that went out last week and cost almost 3 mil.
Drinks 1.5 pints of oil per engine operating hour. were pulling the engines out every other month to be rebuilt. So as I see it owning a Jet as opposed to a Leer that someone else takes care of and you cant beat the shit out of it, its just made to cruise like a Cadillac is going to be much more cost effective. Because airframe stress from pulling Gs is what causes the jets to come apart. If you have the time and the countless dollars to throw at it. I mean countless like, Ive easily put 2 mil into mine this year. Then go for it.
Is this true? I mean he's a crew chief, so he knows a lot more than me, but I mean it just doesn't make sense to me for the company that is building the plane, being founded by a guy who was a military pilot himself I believe, to build a plane that no one will be able to afford. I am sure they are in it to make a profit.
The only minus would be having to wear a helmet/oxygenmask (above 10,000 feet) and a G suit every time you want to go somewhere. If you were a businessman that would suck. And 6gs is plenty enough to make you pass out without a G suit. And Jets that small don't have their own start systems, and are started with a -60 (dash 60) which is a small turbine powered generator that supplies air and electricity to start the jet.
Tires are about $600 each and last about 20 landings. Then you have to find someone to mount them. Parker Hannifin makes the hydraulic pumps for our F-16s, they only last 1500 hours or so, ours don't even last that long. Looking at 50 grand there. $150 grand for the Power Drive unit to run the leading edge flaps, we go through a few of those a month. Accessory drive gearboxes. I just put a new one in my jet last week, those are about $400 grand, and takes about 20 hours worth the labor to install.
So I wouldn't figure buying one would be all that expensive, but knowing the industry and knowing that our jets fly at 6-9 gs everyday and we throw hundreds of thousands of dollars a day at the jets, I wouldn't think anyone could afford to keep one in the air. Its not like you buy a Honda and they run for 100,000 miles without a hitch, they are such complex machines over 20 miles of wiring run through them. I know they aren't advertising F-16s but looking at the website. its a smaller version of what I work on, I change 10-20 things a week on my jet ranging from $2 from a light bulb to the heads up display that went out last week and cost almost 3 mil.
Drinks 1.5 pints of oil per engine operating hour. were pulling the engines out every other month to be rebuilt. So as I see it owning a Jet as opposed to a Leer that someone else takes care of and you cant beat the shit out of it, its just made to cruise like a Cadillac is going to be much more cost effective. Because airframe stress from pulling Gs is what causes the jets to come apart. If you have the time and the countless dollars to throw at it. I mean countless like, Ive easily put 2 mil into mine this year. Then go for it.
Is this true? I mean he's a crew chief, so he knows a lot more than me, but I mean it just doesn't make sense to me for the company that is building the plane, being founded by a guy who was a military pilot himself I believe, to build a plane that no one will be able to afford. I am sure they are in it to make a profit.
They'll make a profit. Probably by selling a couple to rich guys who are good sticks, and the rest to rich idiots who think their money gives them the ability to hack flying it. Who will in turn make a bunch of flight instructors rich, and then they will buy the planes from their erstwhile students . . .
IMO, he's talking apples and oranges. MILSPEC and civilian parts and service are a bit different. Look at the difference between a P-3/C-130 and a T-34. They're both turbine powered prop planes, so "obviously" they must share the same maintenance reqs, right? Yeah, not so much. I also think the typical user of this jet, who apparently drives his luxury AMG to the plane and then wears a coat and tie to the cockpit would get pretty tired of pulling more than 2-3 G's aweful fast.
What about flight time itself? The number of hours put on the airframe daily/weekly/etc, would be a lot higher for a military jet than a civilian version, which I would think also makes a huge difference in the maintenance reqs.
Ya, all of that is true if you were buying an F-16. This thing is not an F-16. I promise tires will last more than 20 landings. Hell, the tires on the hornet last more than 20 traps so I don't know what BS he's talking about, or what cheap ass firestones they're using. You can pull more than 6 G's w/out a suit easily, and you don't have to have a helmet and mask above 10K feet, as long as the thing is pressurized. How many passengers on airliners have you seen wearing helmets and masks above 10K? The hyd pumps will last longer than 1500 hours.
Viper Crew chief is talking out his ass.
Doubtful, these rich guys are going to do what, take it for a sping on a weekend. Cross country a few times a year. There is no way they could keep up with the punishment a sqadron puts on their jets.
Not quite...
That HUD doesn't get tossed in the trash. It goes to AMD and gets fixed by a ground pounder E-5 making less than 60K a year and put back into another airframe. So much for 3 million dollar parts...
That HUD doesn't get tossed in the trash. It goes to AMD and gets fixed by a ground pounder E-5 making less than 60K a year and put back into another airframe. So much for 3 million dollar parts...
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Yeah.. They always loved to tell us "That engine cost $500K and you just smoke-checked it" when we broke shit..
However, I saw a lot of $50-60K parts that were "ruined" just need $2-3K to fix them and get a new RFI tag. You think every NSIU, AGCA, AI or TACAN box you get is new? Hell no.. They are rebuilt or repaired as long as appropriate.
However, I saw a lot of $50-60K parts that were "ruined" just need $2-3K to fix them and get a new RFI tag. You think every NSIU, AGCA, AI or TACAN box you get is new? Hell no.. They are rebuilt or repaired as long as appropriate.
Yeah, that was my point. Some rich dude buys one and probably puts as many hours on his plane in a year as a squadron would in a month. So, airframe inspections/engine inspections/etc, would be a lot fewer and further between, hence less money needed to fund the addiction.
Im by no means an expert but this is the way I see it:
ATG is a private company fielding a product for private consumption. They dont have to go through all of the tests, red tape, and congressional approvals that a military jet has to go through. Drives overall cost down.
The ATG is not built for combat. Systems dont have to be hardened in the way that they might for a fighter/attack air craft.
It seems to me that this jet, while having the appearance of a fighter, has far fewer parts than an F-16. this has one purpose, transportation, where as a combat aircraft must be able to transport the operator and munitions, evade enemy detection as best possible, evade enemy defenses once detected, and put ordinance on target accurately.
The F-16s this guy is working on are probably many years old with hundreds if not thousands of hours on them. I would expect that a brand new F-16, F-18, or ATG runs great right out of the box, and only after many hours will it begin to become so maintenance intensive that it become prohibitively expensive. This is beyond the limits of my understand I know, but just my best guess.
ATG is a private company fielding a product for private consumption. They dont have to go through all of the tests, red tape, and congressional approvals that a military jet has to go through. Drives overall cost down.
The ATG is not built for combat. Systems dont have to be hardened in the way that they might for a fighter/attack air craft.
It seems to me that this jet, while having the appearance of a fighter, has far fewer parts than an F-16. this has one purpose, transportation, where as a combat aircraft must be able to transport the operator and munitions, evade enemy detection as best possible, evade enemy defenses once detected, and put ordinance on target accurately.
The F-16s this guy is working on are probably many years old with hundreds if not thousands of hours on them. I would expect that a brand new F-16, F-18, or ATG runs great right out of the box, and only after many hours will it begin to become so maintenance intensive that it become prohibitively expensive. This is beyond the limits of my understand I know, but just my best guess.
Random8145
Registered User
Just wondering, but does anyone know the performers/composer of the music in that video, that was beautiful.
I couldnt find the sticker price on this thing. How much is it?
Depending on how much you trust Wikipedia...2.8 Million give or take. Chump change really
.disclaimer: Umichfly is not really a filthy rich fvck that can afford a 2.8 million dollar toy. Anyone who is willing to donate one can apply via PM.
Link to Wikipedia