vegita1220
User
http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050811/ts_chicagotrib/usreportwarnsofchinasubthreat
Hope we're already on top of this one.
Hope we're already on top of this one.
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ASW coming back?
- Thread starter vegita1220
- Start date
vegita1220 said:
What do you mean by we? If you mean the US, then yes, because it was the Pentagon who released the report. If you mean the fleet, I would say FASWC is doing a pretty good job building ASW back up, atleast at the upper echelon level, I am not sure how much is actually hitting the fleet.
I'm sure the China shops at every US inteligence agency sees it differently. Since this guy essentially becomes a military politician next month, he has to paint it as a pretty picture. I smell another Japan or German war machine in the making. To trust PRC and say they don't intend to use that war machine is extremely naiive. Their intent is to be the world's other super power and to be respected as such (read, we'll take back Tawain if we damn well please...what are you gonna do, start WWIII over it?)
There is more to this picture than just Taiwan. I think if senior military leadership continues to believe that just because we currently have a "good" relationship with China, then there's no reason to believe they have the intent to using their weapons....well, I think that's being naiive. I personally don't think Gen Pace believes this. This is a very smart man we're talking about. He doesn't need to paint us a pretty picture because he's gonna be a politician. He already IS a politician. But besides that, his remarks are meant to downplay what some may believe to be a valid and true threat. At this point, China is not looking at global power.....regional power and more importantly, dominance is a better description of their goal.
ASW is one of those things that needs to be practiced, practiced, and when perfected, practiced some more. The skillsets involved in ASW (and there are many) atrophy pretty quick if they're not continuously exercised and honed.
Here is a link to a good article about our status on ASW. It's from the Spring 05 edition of War College Review.
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2005/spring/pdfs/art4-sp05.pdf ...In PDF format
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2005/spring/art4-sp05.htm ...In html format
Good article on ASW overall.
ASW is one of those things that needs to be practiced, practiced, and when perfected, practiced some more. The skillsets involved in ASW (and there are many) atrophy pretty quick if they're not continuously exercised and honed.
Here is a link to a good article about our status on ASW. It's from the Spring 05 edition of War College Review.
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2005/spring/pdfs/art4-sp05.pdf ...In PDF format
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2005/spring/art4-sp05.htm ...In html format
Good article on ASW overall.
That's an interesting comment, Steve, because from what I've read in Proceedings and some of the briefs I've had recently, it doesn't seem that the leadership thinks there's no reason to be worried. They seem to be watching very carefully and getting ready, to include PACOM continuing to foster friendly relationships w/ every other Asian/PacRim country it can.
But, what I find even more interesting is how a discussion such as this can really be continued on this level. It just seems like there's so much info out there that isn't public domain (read: some sort of classification) regarding Taiwan and China that it's really hard to make an "educated" statement w/out getting into the nitty gritty. Kind of like relying on news media to give you the clearest picture of what's happening in OEF/Iraq, as opposed to also reading blogs or some of the emails that are posted here. Not saying a lot of good info can't be obtained, it's just a little harder.
Don't mean to quash the discussion. Merely an observation.
But, what I find even more interesting is how a discussion such as this can really be continued on this level. It just seems like there's so much info out there that isn't public domain (read: some sort of classification) regarding Taiwan and China that it's really hard to make an "educated" statement w/out getting into the nitty gritty. Kind of like relying on news media to give you the clearest picture of what's happening in OEF/Iraq, as opposed to also reading blogs or some of the emails that are posted here. Not saying a lot of good info can't be obtained, it's just a little harder.
Don't mean to quash the discussion. Merely an observation.
gatordev said:
True, but think about who those briefs and articles (Proceedings) are geared towards. Us. The comment made by Gen Pace was geared toward the press (who in turn push that information out to the public, who really have no idea what's going on anyway).
I guess my post was a bit confusing. I personally don't believe that the senior leadership thinks that China is non threat--I've had too many briefs here myself to believe that. However, sometimes they (senior leadership) can give interviews or what not, and come across as if China is no big deal. During the Cold War, EVERYONE knew what the threat was, even the layman. My personal feeling is this is what needs to happen with China. So, the more our politicians and military leadership continue to spew nonsense about the China threat, the longer it's going to take for the average American civilian to snap out of their naivete and understand what you and I already know.
...and like I said, we need to start looking beyond Taiwan as reasons for China's intentions or actions.
Of course you have to look past Taiwan regarding China but that is the one little itch they haven't been able to scratch. I'm sure it's pretty high on the PRC priority list. And they know it's a little more intimidating for us to come to Taiwan's aid knowing they have a whole fleet of subs surrounding the island, not to mention all the other "buildup" (dancing around OPSEC) in that region.Steve Wilkins said:
All I'm saying is that Taiwan could be China's proving ground to consider itself the other superpower. Like you said, Steve, no matter what is coming out of the leadership's mouth, do not underestimate the Chinese.
We have let our ASW capabilities atrophy and will probably have to pay the price.
http://navlog.org/brunswick.html
http://navlog.org/mma_cnx.html
http://www.navlog.org
http://navlog.org/brunswick.html
http://navlog.org/mma_cnx.html
http://www.navlog.org
TransvestFO
Seven years of college, down the drain.
There are two ways of viewing China. One choice is to figure that at the current rate of commercialization, they will be more "American" than we are within a generation or two. The other choice is to assume that there will be some future military conflict due to competitive requirments for decreasing resources or just because they (or we) want to. If choice one happens, choice two may happen anyway. In any case, trying to remain as positive as possible, start learning chinese. At the rate they are stripping us of intellectual capital via hacking the net, they will be able to reverse engineer the Big Mack, new coke and the Goodyear blimp (and whatever else they want) in no time.
They're already pretty well versed in reverse engineering, especially missile systems. I had a Big Mac in Hong Kong. It sucked.TransvestFO said:
TransvestFO
Seven years of college, down the drain.
Thank goodness, I was really getting worried...
Jolly Roger
Yes. I am a Pirate.
TransvestFO said:
That is a very good point. When the resources (i.e. oil) start becoming scarce, the PRC will turn on its local competitors and producers of resources. There was an article in Proceedings, a few months ago, that talked about the increase in consumption of oil in India and the PRC and there increased competition for regional resources. The gist of this article was given the rapid build up of PRC and Indian naval strength, the PRC would likely go to blows with India before they started something with the US.
I think the key indicator in the PRC's intentions is the Spratley Islands. They will move on the Spratley's and exploit them first, before they take on something bigger like India, Taiwan. or the US.
Just my $1.05.