Anybody still think the economy has turned the corner?

[ryan1234]

Ah yes, the military, always the first to be cut:

Cut so the administration can buy the proverbial deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[eddie]

If everyone overspends on Xmas gifts we can cause a Christams miracle and save the economy!

It's not over until we "decide" its over, unfortunately.

 

[DanMa1156]

I'm not usually one to defend Congress, but this statement I find to be a little less than educated.

While term limits may or may not be a good idea (I personally am in favor of term limits), Congressman are rarely entirely in the pocket of special interest... for several reasons.

1. The majority of campaign contributions come from private citizens like you and I

2. Special interest rarely attempts to change the mind of an elected official by throwing around money. Rather they find someone who is going to vote their way regardless and then try to get them elected. You're not going to buy a pro-choice vote from John Cornyn no matter what.

3. Special interest is often a way that the people are represented. Yes there are corporate interests in Washington no doubt. However the largest interest groups are funded the same way political campaigns are, through small contributions from many private individuals. NRA, GOA, DU, CCA, etc. are all privately funded special interest lobbying groups.


4. This statement is by and large false. Members of Congress MUST care about what their constituents think.

In "American Congress" and other publications on Congressional behavior it is argued that members of Congress have 3 main goals.

1. Get re-elected
2. Pass good public policy
3. Institutional promotion

Number 1 is the most important because you cant fulfill 2 and 3 without it, and Number 1 depends on votes, not just money, and not corporate/special interests.

If you think Congressmen aren't swayed by large corporations, then check out this: www.opensecrets.org check a few Congressmen and who their largest donors are then check their voting record.

 

[DanMa1156]

It's not over until we "decide" its over, unfortunately.

I think it's quite a bit more complicated than that. Even if consumer spending went up, it'd be bad to see consumer savings go down. Plus, the credit markets still haven't really "unfrozen" and well... the list goes on and on and it's Saturday morning and I don't feel like going into it.

 

[eddie]

I think it's quite a bit more complicated than that. Even if consumer spending went up, it'd be bad to see consumer savings go down. Plus, the credit markets still haven't really "unfrozen" and well... the list goes on and on and it's Saturday morning and I don't feel like going into it.

I agree. I guess I should have said something more like best indicator. It was kind of a joke.

 

[CapSky]

The article, 'Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis' by James Simpson, September 28, 2008 explains how this strategy seeks to bring about the fall of capitalism by overloading the system with overwhelming demands, thereby creating political and financial chaos and eventually economic collapse. Once achieved, it opens the door for radical 'change' of the socialist variety as an excuse to stave off the crisis/emergency.

I'm convinced that the September financial meltdown was no accident of timing. These things, like the left's takeover of the education system and the media, are well-designed and well-executed plans that have the calculated goals of imposing socialism far and wide. It's damn clever stuff, and it shouldn't be viewed as a mere conspiracy theory when the evidence is becoming clearer and clearer.

The common leftist may be foolish, but their puppeteers are extremely sly. I've always thought that the real philosophical intelligence is right of center, yet this strategy has been unfolding in front of us for decades, and is now reaching its zenith with the administration. If the best conservative minds can't figure out how to counteract this radical push to the left, then we've not only lost the intellectual battle, we've probably lost the country.

 

[squorch2]

Who are you again?

 

[Flash]

The article, 'Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis' by James Simpson, September 28, 2008 explains how this strategy seeks to bring about the fall of capitalism by overloading the system with overwhelming demands, thereby creating political and financial chaos and eventually economic collapse. Once achieved, it opens the door for radical 'change' of the socialist variety as an excuse to stave off the crisis/emergency.

I'm convinced that the September financial meltdown was no accident of timing. These things, like the left's takeover of the education system and the media, are well-designed and well-executed plans that have the calculated goals of imposing socialism far and wide. It's damn clever stuff, and it shouldn't be viewed as a mere conspiracy theory when the evidence is becoming clearer and clearer.

The common leftist may be foolish, but their puppeteers are extremely sly. I've always thought that the real philosophical intelligence is right of center, yet this strategy has been unfolding in front of us for decades, and is now reaching its zenith with the administration. If the best conservative minds can't figure out how to counteract this radical push to the left, then we've not only lost the intellectual battle, we've probably lost the country.

Workers of the world, unite!!

Just curious, is this you?

 

[CapSky]

Workers of the world, unite!!

Just curious, is this you?

Negative.

 

[CapSky]

Besides the financial meltdown, I find the calculating use of the poor even more disgusting. These people that claim to care more for the poor than anyone else are simply using them to achieve unending power. The poor become collateral damage in their pursuit of social reorganization.

The arrogance of Obama has no bounds. We are surely seeing that. America has elected the first man who truly hates this country and its majority population.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[desertoasis]

If the best conservative minds can't figure out how to counteract this radical push to the left, then we've not only lost the intellectual battle, we've probably lost the country.

Then leave this country, and take your conspiracy theory horseshit with you. People who say that America is doomed and that we're all going to hell in a handbasket, then do nothing but whine and whine and complain on the internet should just leave, because they (correction; you) are not doing anything to solve the nation's problems or presenting real alternatives, or even attempting to discuss it civilly. All they (correction again; you) are doing is just pouring gas onto the fire, adding to the political polarization that is hampering any real efforts to change things, and generally being unhelpful to the extreme. Both sides are doing it, and both sides are fueling the idiocy, which has given rise to idiotic articles like that one. I believe there were a few of those horseshit articles back during GWB's time about how he instigated 9/11 in order to finish the Gulf War? And before that about how Clinton had his affair to draw attention away from his interventions in Yugoslavia and Kosovo? None of that, and neither your 'article', is true, and that you are trying to peddle that garbage and pawn it off as material that is valid is just asinine.

You wanna help fix the nation? Figure out a way to meet in the middle of the road and REALLY discuss the issues, without any partisan blinders or backhanded efforts to undermine the other side, without disqualifying suggestions just because they come from the left or the right (or even the center), and without propagandizing every little action that may not have been executed. Then, once you're figured it out, tell the other side how to do it, because neither side is doing it, and you sure as shit aren't either.

And also, who are you? You are coming off as nothing more than a right-wing troll. Do you have any connection to Naval Aviation at all?

 

[Bevo16]

You wanna help fix the nation? Figure out a way to meet in the middle of the road and REALLY discuss the issues....

Meeting in the middle is good marriage advice. It is HORRIBLE political strategy.

Just look at the way the NRA does business. The stance of the National Rifle Assciation is WAY further to the right than even the majority of the people that support them. The reason...they HAVE to be that way. The people on left of the gun issue want a total ban on guns, in order to counteract that the NRA pretty much has to support regular citizens having the right to own thermonuclear war-heads (with proper background check). Meeting in the middle with someone who has no genuine desire for middle ground just means a steady march toward their side. As soon as you agree on middle ground, they just draw the line in front of you assume their previous position and ask to meet in the middle again. There you are standing where you thought was the middle and now you have to fight like hell just to get back where you were.

With that in mind, it is dangerous and intellectually dishonest to call BHO for anything other than what he is. (Like Bill Parcels said: "You are what your record says you are.") There is nothing. Repeat, NOTHING, in Obama's history that suggests that he prefers a capitalistic economic system, has any knowledge of how to run a business, or has any interest in a free market economy. Every decision he has made has the exact same philosophy under it: greater government control of (what previously was) private industry. The banks: government run. Auto industry: government run and subsidized (cash for clunkers anyone?). Health care: Trying like hell for a government takeover, with a stated ultimate goal of a "single payer system" (aka: "socialized medicine").

No economist that is not on the DNC payroll seems to think that the current policies are going to work. In fact, most think that they will deepen the recession and our inflationary debt production will kill any real economic rally before it has a chance to even get going.

I am not going to get into the ideas of "Obama not really liking America" because I can't read his mind. What is clear to anyone who is paying attention is that Obama is a dyed-in-the-wool socialist and he is steering our economy in that direction. Can it work? Maybe. I don't know. China is heading toward middle ground of socialized capitalism, but they are doing it from the other direction. They are using capitalism to save socialism. We are trying to justify socialism to save capitalism.

 

[CapSky]

And also, who are you? You are coming off as nothing more than a right-wing troll. Do you have any connection to Naval Aviation at all?

Ahh, the whole who are you canard.

Don't like what I propound, attack the mesenger not the message---FUCK YOU.

The real die was cast in 1977 when Jimmy Carter signed the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) into law, opening the door to lending to below average credit and income home buyers. The CRA was put on steroids in 1998 when the Clinton Justice Dept, Janet Reno et.al, threatened and ultimately forced banks to dramatically lower their lending standards allowing a waterfall of unqualified borrowers to secure home mortgages. The DOJ's pressure was combined with the efforts of community organizers all over the country (ACORN) demonstrating vocally on the steps of lending banks. This coordinated effort intimidated bank officials into acquiescing to the demands of the government and activists and low, the Sub-Prime mortgage market was born.



To me it seems the philosophy and ideals of Richard Cloward, Francis Piven, George A. Wiley and Saul Alinsky have dovetailed right into the heart and soul of Barack Hussein Obama, the ultimate community organizer/agitator. We now have the genesis of revolutionary government coupled with the loss of liberty that goes hand in hand with Totalitarianism.

 

[E26]

We now have the genesis of revolutionary government coupled with the loss of liberty that goes hand in hand with Totalitarianism.

Call me ignorant sir, but what liberties have we lost, and how do we fit under the definition of totalitarianism? I may not be as educated, but last I checked, everything's the same as it has been the last twenty years :icon_smil

 

[CapSky]

Then leave this country, and take your conspiracy theory horseshit with you. People who say that America is doomed and that we're all going to hell in a handbasket, then do nothing but whine and whine and complain on the internet should just leave, because they (correction; you) are not doing anything to solve the nation's problems or presenting real alternatives, or even attempting to discuss it civilly. All they (correction again; you) are doing is just pouring gas onto the fire, adding to the political polarization that is hampering any real efforts to change things, and generally being unhelpful to the extreme. Both sides are doing it, and both sides are fueling the idiocy, which has given rise to idiotic articles like that one. I believe there were a few of those horseshit articles back during GWB's time about how he instigated 9/11 in order to finish the Gulf War? And before that about how Clinton had his affair to draw attention away from his interventions in Yugoslavia and Kosovo? None of that, and neither your 'article', is true, and that you are trying to peddle that garbage and pawn it off as material that is valid is just asinine.

You wanna help fix the nation? Figure out a way to meet in the middle of the road and REALLY discuss the issues, without any partisan blinders or backhanded efforts to undermine the other side, without disqualifying suggestions just because they come from the left or the right (or even the center), and without propagandizing every little action that may not have been executed. Then, once you're figured it out, tell the other side how to do it, because neither side is doing it, and you sure as shit aren't either.

HA! You prove the disclaimer that there were a helluva lot of things they didn't tell me when I hired on with this outfit. PUTZ.

Call me ignorant sir, but what liberties have we lost, and how do we fit under the definition of totalitarianism? I may not be as educated, but last I checked, everything's the same as it has been the last twenty years :icon_smil

Roger that noted.

Once a large enough segment of the population realizes they can have politicians working on their behalf to "spread the wealth around" do you think they're going to give a rats ass about "principles" and Mother Documents? And the power brokers - why would they care any more for these same things? Why bother basing their career on principles and philosophies that are not convenient and require sacrifice and thus risking losing power? They become equally slothful and find it far easier to ensure an ongoing power base by redistributing monies coerced from the hard workers of the so-called middle class.

I mean, in regarding the previous thoughts, who wouldn't want socialism... other than moral, self-actualized, contributing men and women?

When the incremental extension of power comes, it barely pricks the "fun bubble". The income tax? It's only 2% and it only kicks in after you make $1 million. (That's how it all started -- look at what we have now) Pop the cork on another bottle of champagne -- we're having too much fun to worry about this.

Then you have another incremental power-grab. And another, and another, and . . .

Before long you are living under tyranny.