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Another Experience At Vance

Morgan81

It's not my lawn. It's OUR lawn.
pilot
Contributor
I said it's the same as VOR/DME, not VOR. As long as your NAVAID is giving DME, then it's the same as a TACAN. The aircraft's capabilities are the same. So, explain to me how it's different. Maybe I'm missing something.
Not sure how it is on the T-6 but in a few Cessnas I flew, you had a VOR frequency to tune in, then a separate DME. Could be adventagous in a strage situation but I've always liked how TACAN gives you both DME and radial information by tuning one freq in. Other then that they seemed pretty similar IIRC (someone slap me if I'm mistaken).
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
"Stand up Eps still sound gay"

Make no mistake about it, they suck; more from boredom than anything else. The reason being is that even if you know what the emergency is (for example you're given a fire light, high ITT, fluctuating fluid pressures, and black smoke billowing out of the stacks), you still have to 'analyze' everything else before you state the bold face... In the real airplane am I going to check my circuit breakers if I have a confirmed fire? Hell to the no.

Is what I was trying to say in my post is that they are indisputably homosexual, but they are a cakewalk. To me they were a simple hoop to jump through. I wanted to correct the record because I heard so many horror stories at API about them.

"I haven't seen anyone address the topic of post-Vance adaptation. Specifically, how was the transition from Vance to your advanced squadron and the Navy way of flight training and studying?"

I'm sure some of the instructors at advanced squadrons can address this better than I can, but I can tell you a bit of what i've heard. To start off, NAVY/Marine folks here have special syllabus requirements that the Air Force studs don't have... We go on flights with Marine/Navy IPs to get somewhat proficient at things like AOA patterns, PARs and ASRs etc. This provides some degree of Navy standardization thorughout the program.

If I have unf*cking to do, it will be with my terminology. It seems as if everything is similar, but it is called a different name. The Air Force calls their NATOPS a "Dash One". Points in the pattern are called different things etc.

As far as the AOA indexor... the T-6s here have a green chevron over an amber donut over a red chevron... Isn't this the same as it is in Navy aircraft?
 

PURower

Registered User
pilot
I've read a couple of these Vance posts and they're amazingly thorough. However, I haven't seen anyone address the topic of post-Vance adaptation. Specifically, how was the transition from Vance to your advanced squadron and the Navy way of flight training and studying? I remember countless instructors in advanced asking if anyone went to Vance, because, if so, they needed to unfuck them. Now, I'd like to know from a Vance stud's POV if the transition is in any way difficult or strange. Riddle me that...

I went through T-6's at Vance and then continued on to the T-45 in Meridian. In my opinion it wasn't a difficult transition at all. I didn't need the AF handholding style of studying so once I was in Meridian I didn't find it difficult to study and learn things on my own and I haven't found it difficult thus far in the RAG. As far as avionics, i didn't show up to my first flight in a T-45 and get my mind blown by this "TACAN" thing and wish for my VOR/DME. Switching from steam gauges or digital representations of steam gauges to MFD's and a HUD took more brain power then figuring out how to fly a TACAN approach instead of a VOR one. So to sum it up.....the transition is not difficult.
 

CaptainRon

Member
pilot
Contributor
Thanks for the post man. I'm at Vance now and can't wait to graduate this place. Your post-Vance positivity gives me hope. I'll keep pressing.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
As far as the AOA indexer... the T-6s here have a green chevron over an amber donut over a red chevron... Isn't this the same as it is in Navy aircraft?
Nope. Red over amber over Green.

V - FAST
O - ON SPEED
^ - SLOW


On-speed AOA will also always be at 3 o'clock for guys like me who like to use the gauge when scanning inside the cockpit.
 

magnetfreezer

Well-Known Member
Not sure how it is on the T-6 but in a few Cessnas I flew, you had a VOR frequency to tune in, then a separate DME. Could be adventagous in a strage situation but I've always liked how TACAN gives you both DME and radial information by tuning one freq in. Other then that they seemed pretty similar IIRC (someone slap me if I'm mistaken).

The T-6 automatically displays the appropriate DME when you tune up a VOR/DME or VORTAC frequency (or TACAN paired frequency).
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
As far as the AOA indexor... the T-6s here have a green chevron over an amber donut over a red chevron... Isn't this the same as it is in Navy aircraft?
Are you sure? USAF indexers are usually:

V - Slow / Hi AOA
O - On Speed

^ - Fast / Low AOA

 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
I said it's the same as VOR/DME, not VOR. As long as your NAVAID is giving DME, then it's the same as a TACAN. The aircraft's capabilities are the same. So, explain to me how it's different. Maybe I'm missing something.


I'm not sure about all the logistics behind the system (avionics system) but I haven't seen a plane without inertial/GPS use a VOR/DME to draw a planometric line on the display. I don't see any reason it couldn't do it, but I haven't seen it. I am a map-mode lover so I like to have a visual depiction whenever possible.

Are there planes out there with a VOR/DME map mode that doesn't utilize inertial or GPS?
 

FLY_USMC

Well-Known Member
pilot
Are there planes out there with a VOR/DME map mode that doesn't utilize inertial or GPS?
I would have to say no, or not that I've seen, and I like to think I've seen a bit.

Of course, I've been saying Vance wasn't that bad for Fng years and the transition to Navy land took all of two seconds, so what do I know?
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
As I understand it, the T-6 doesn't have TACAN, and you guys have to travel to another field to do PARs. So while The T-6 may seem sweet (although I hear it is NOT glass cockpit, merely digital representations of STEAM guages), it is missing the capability to teach what Naval aviators use in the fleet 95% of the time (TACAN/PAR approaches).

Just wanted to hit back on your points here. Correct in that the T-6 doesn't have a TACAN... But if you can use a a VOR/DME, you can use a TACAN. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to figure out the difference. If they were so cosmically different, they wouldn't use the T-6 to train SNFOs down in P'cola. Kind of a moot point if you ask me. The T-6 also allows for familiarization with GPS approaches and students at Vance get lots of exposure to those as well.

On to the PARs. I have no idea what you are trying to get at here. I've done loads of them during my training here at Vance. One of the several fields we use around here for PARs is 15 minutes south.

Also the T-6 does have a glass cockpit. It's fairly basic in comparison to most other advanced glass cockpits out there, but it does have the major components of one (an EFIS control panel, interchangable EHSI and EADI with several different modes, including a composite, mapping GPS etc.). You are correct in that several of the other guages are electronic representations of steam guages. Like I said before, I wasn't saying that the T-6 made better pilots, I was just saying that it is a more advanced/functional trainer than the T-34. After all that's most likely why the NAVY is transitioning to it.

You say that the TTT (time to train) was very quick, however I'm going to say there's a HUGE caveat of YMMV on that. Two of my friends who went to Vance from my same API class waited longer than me to class up, and with the increased time for the academics at the beginning, I finished primary more than a month ahead of them. So although their TTT may have been equal or slightly less than mine, the overall time I spent in primary was less (due to waits and academics etc). In general, I've seen other guys at Vance take longer than I did.

This definitely is a valid point. The initial wait to class up can certainly vary (just like it does at Corpus and Whiting). If you have a 1-2+ month wait up here and your buddies down in Corpus or Whiting class up instantly, they will probably beat you or tie you out of here. But I can tell you that unless you are struggling in training, you will most likely always get through faster up here than you will in Corpus or Whiting (if you class up on the same day they do).

Also, like I said, the day you show up you'll know the day you are going to class up (whenever it is) and the day you will graduate by or before. There are no breaks between academics and flying. You complete academics one day and start flying on the next. They leave no uncertainty up here.

Another nice aspect is that Navy studs can take leave up here on the Air Force's pass program prior to classing up. It's a sweet deal... It involves you leaving and going wherever the hell you want, but not being actually charged leave for being gone.

Then again, (unless you travel) you won't exactly be basking in the sun on some beach either.
 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
When we talk about "glass" we don't just mean that the gauges are other than steam gauges. It is more or less an actual system, not a material per se.

Glass= Hawk C
Not glass (but has EFIS et, al)= EA-6B

Check?
 

Single Seat

Average member
pilot
None
When we talk about "glass" we don't just mean that the gauges are other than steam gauges. It is more or less an actual system, not a material per se.

Glass= Hawk C
Not glass (but has EFIS et, al)= EA-6B

Check?

So then what are analog gauges on glass displays? (I always thought this was stupid)

t-6cockpit2.jpg
 
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