I'm not saying I support the position that pilots need to live in ivory castles, although, a pilot who has worked for a company for the better part of his careers should not have to worry about having his pension seized after he retires, inaddition, pilots should also not qualify for food stamps.
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Airlines & The Unions: The Classic Love-Hate Relationship:
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Spain Airport Strikes To Hit Nearly 1M Passengers- Union
BLOOD in the SKIES ???
YOU GO GIRLS update:
United Flight Attendants Step Up Strike Rhetoric
YOU GO GIRLS update:
United Flight Attendants Step Up Strike Rhetoric
Taildragger
API-bound!
A4s is the resident guru on the airlines, without a doubt. I'm an airline brat and my dad has been flying for his current airline for 26+ years. While I don't feel that I personally can add much to this thread, I will say that in my lifetime, I've seen my dad give pay concessions multiple times and I've seen him go on strike -- and ALPA has come up to bat for him strong every time. I don't necessarily agree with unions, but the union is a bare necessity in the airline industry. Without ALPA you are basically leaving the pilot workforce out to dry, and management will try to eat them alive. If ALPA wasn't there, airline pilots would be getting paid minimum wage, plain and simple. That is the misconception: ALPA and the airline pilots are not a bunch of spoiled idiots who are trying to screw their airlines over -- it is quite the opposite. Airline management is where you will find the spoiled idiots who are trying to screw over their employees. My dad just took a paycut to keep his airline afloat; maybe management should take a lesson and follow suit. Airline pilots are some of the most professional workers in today's economy -- I don't think anyone on this forum will disagree with that -- and they deserve every cent of what they earn (within reason), and if they aren't there, the airline doesn't exist. It's easy for a jealous doctor or lawyer to say that airline pilots are just a bunch of glorified bus drivers, but lets look at it this way: what would happen if doctors were paid low hourly salaries? You'd probably be better off operating on yourself. In the airline industry, what you get is what you pay for -- and if you want to continue to have the most highly trained, exponentially professional group of pilots hauling the trash, then you need ALPA around.
... And with that, I'll let the qualified guys do the talkin...
... And with that, I'll let the qualified guys do the talkin...
Taildragger said:
....."let the qualified guys to the talkin'...."?? You have just presented a very balance view of airline reality, short and sweet. I don't know anyone here who could have phrased it any better.
Well said, junior. Your Dad must be proud of you .....
Good News for HAL ???
April 28, 2005
Hawaiian Airlines Pilots Reach Tentative Agreement With Management
Agreement Now Goes to Membership for Ratification
HONOLULU, HAWAI'I (ALPA News)-- Hawaiian Airlines pilots and management reached a proposed tentative agreement for a new contract, it was announced today by Master Executive Committee Chairman Captain Kirk McBride of the Air Line Pilots Association International (ALPA). The tentative agreement now goes to ALPA's members for ratification.
"Like all airline employees, our pilots have worked and sacrificed a great deal to get to where they are today. We believe this new pact answers many of the questions our members had with the previous tentative agreement," said McBride. "We believe they will be pleased with this new agreement," he added.
The ratification voting is expected to conclude on Tuesday, May 10.
Headquartered in Honolulu, Hawaiian Airlines is the nation's 12th-largest carrier, with 135 daily flights flown by 300 pilots who operate a fleet of B-717 and B-767 aircraft.
April 28, 2005
Hawaiian Airlines Pilots Reach Tentative Agreement With Management
Agreement Now Goes to Membership for Ratification
HONOLULU, HAWAI'I (ALPA News)-- Hawaiian Airlines pilots and management reached a proposed tentative agreement for a new contract, it was announced today by Master Executive Committee Chairman Captain Kirk McBride of the Air Line Pilots Association International (ALPA). The tentative agreement now goes to ALPA's members for ratification.
"Like all airline employees, our pilots have worked and sacrificed a great deal to get to where they are today. We believe this new pact answers many of the questions our members had with the previous tentative agreement," said McBride. "We believe they will be pleased with this new agreement," he added.
The ratification voting is expected to conclude on Tuesday, May 10.
Headquartered in Honolulu, Hawaiian Airlines is the nation's 12th-largest carrier, with 135 daily flights flown by 300 pilots who operate a fleet of B-717 and B-767 aircraft.
I think this one will get approved.
1. It grandfathers all pilots over 50 to our old defined benefit pension plan. For those of us under 50, it freezes the plan at the end of 2008 and than it becomes a defined contribution were the company contributes 17% of the pilot payroll. Individual pilots get to choose how to invest their DC monies and are vested immediately. At a 7% return on investment, we get 94% of current pension, at 8% its 101%, and at 9% its 109%. The avarage return over the last 50 years is 8.5% to 10.3% depending on which government report you use. This is only if we do not come to an agreement on a new pension scheme by the end of 2008. We start negotiations on retirement agasin in Septemeber 2005 and the rest of the contract in 18 months (it is a 3 year deal from last July 1st).
2. I keeps medical insurance costs basically where they are at for both active and retired pilots.
3. I gives a 1% pay raise each year for 3 years (which is just to offset increased medical costs and achieve #2 above.)
4. It sets up a quicker and better way to hear and resolve grievances.
5. Raise per diem to $2/hr domestic and $2.50/hr international.
6. Provides a modest pay for international relief officers - $5/hr CA, $4/hr typed FO & $3/hr FO.
7. 6 min landing credits interisland.
8. Recurrent training raised from 3 hour to 4 hours credit per day.
9. Preserves existing contract work rules.
Only really bad thing is that it changes the manning formaula from 81hr/month/pilot to 83 hrs. This means slightly less required pilots for existing schedule. There is a no additional furlough guarantee and it is only a 10 or so pilot reduction. Plus, coming out of bankruptcy will mean expansion and recalls (hopefully sooner rather than latter).
I supported rejecting the last TA, but think we would be idiots to reject this one. Although it has a few minor concessions, it is mostly better than the existing contract. Further, we have pushed the Judge almost too far. If we reject this, we will not be happy with what he imposes. ALPA feels we would eventually win in the Appeals Court, but it would take at least 2 to 3 years and we would be stuck in the meantime.
I hope it is approved and we emerge the end of May.
1. It grandfathers all pilots over 50 to our old defined benefit pension plan. For those of us under 50, it freezes the plan at the end of 2008 and than it becomes a defined contribution were the company contributes 17% of the pilot payroll. Individual pilots get to choose how to invest their DC monies and are vested immediately. At a 7% return on investment, we get 94% of current pension, at 8% its 101%, and at 9% its 109%. The avarage return over the last 50 years is 8.5% to 10.3% depending on which government report you use. This is only if we do not come to an agreement on a new pension scheme by the end of 2008. We start negotiations on retirement agasin in Septemeber 2005 and the rest of the contract in 18 months (it is a 3 year deal from last July 1st).
2. I keeps medical insurance costs basically where they are at for both active and retired pilots.
3. I gives a 1% pay raise each year for 3 years (which is just to offset increased medical costs and achieve #2 above.)
4. It sets up a quicker and better way to hear and resolve grievances.
5. Raise per diem to $2/hr domestic and $2.50/hr international.
6. Provides a modest pay for international relief officers - $5/hr CA, $4/hr typed FO & $3/hr FO.
7. 6 min landing credits interisland.
8. Recurrent training raised from 3 hour to 4 hours credit per day.
9. Preserves existing contract work rules.
Only really bad thing is that it changes the manning formaula from 81hr/month/pilot to 83 hrs. This means slightly less required pilots for existing schedule. There is a no additional furlough guarantee and it is only a 10 or so pilot reduction. Plus, coming out of bankruptcy will mean expansion and recalls (hopefully sooner rather than latter).
I supported rejecting the last TA, but think we would be idiots to reject this one. Although it has a few minor concessions, it is mostly better than the existing contract. Further, we have pushed the Judge almost too far. If we reject this, we will not be happy with what he imposes. ALPA feels we would eventually win in the Appeals Court, but it would take at least 2 to 3 years and we would be stuck in the meantime.
I hope it is approved and we emerge the end of May.
Alaska Airlines reaches pact with pilots
Removed copyrighted material
ALPA also thinks it is legal under the RLA to strike if a Judge throws out a contract under 1113c of the bankruptcy code. It's one of our threats/tactics at Hawaiian. In our court hearing, we basically told the Judge we would strike if he ruled in favor of the company. However I don't think it will be tested by us as indications are that the revised TA will pass.
Release #05.HAL6
May 10, 2005
Hawaiian Airlines Pilots Approve New Work Agreement
HONOLULU, HAWAII - Hawaiian Airlines pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International today announced that they have ratified a new work agreement with the airline that includes a 1 percent pay increase in each year of the plan, increased per diem and miscellaneous work rule improvements.
Pilot leaders at Hawaiian had endorsed the agreement on April 28. Of the 258 pilots who voted, 189 (73%) voted in favor of the agreement, and 69 (27%) voted against it. A total of 92% of eligible HAL pilots voted in the ratification ballot.
Captain Kirk McBride, chairman of ALPA's HAL Master Executive Council, said the new work agreement achieves the union's top goals of protecting pilots' retirement security and other benefits, while laying the groundwork for future post-bankruptcy negotiations on retirement and medical benefits.
"This was a tough decision for our membership to make since we think that the Trustee misused Section 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code to achieve management's objectives and we're angry about that," McBride said. "But HAL pilots bargained long and hard for an acceptable contract to have a say in our own future rather than turning that decision over to the Judge. We're going to continue to work together just as hard over the next two years to negotiate an acceptable replacement retirement plan and new amended contract in 2007."
"Thanks to the hard work and sacrifice of all Hawaiian's employees, we now believe our airline can build on the success of the past two years. We're proud of the role that pilots and other employees played helping our company emerge from bankruptcy stronger and ready to compete," McBride added.
The new work agreement will go into effect on June 1, 2005. It becomes amendable on July 1, 2007, with both parties able to exchange new contract openers on Jan. 1, 2007. In September of this year, the parties will begin meetings to continue discussions on pilot retirement benefits.
Headquartered in Honolulu, Hawaiian Airlines is the nation's 12th-largest carrier, with 135 daily flights flown by 300 pilots who operate a fleet of B-717 and B-767 aircraft.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union and represents 64,000 airline pilots at 41 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
# # #
ALPA CONTACT: Capt. Kirk McBride, (808) 836-2572
May 10, 2005
Hawaiian Airlines Pilots Approve New Work Agreement
HONOLULU, HAWAII - Hawaiian Airlines pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International today announced that they have ratified a new work agreement with the airline that includes a 1 percent pay increase in each year of the plan, increased per diem and miscellaneous work rule improvements.
Pilot leaders at Hawaiian had endorsed the agreement on April 28. Of the 258 pilots who voted, 189 (73%) voted in favor of the agreement, and 69 (27%) voted against it. A total of 92% of eligible HAL pilots voted in the ratification ballot.
Captain Kirk McBride, chairman of ALPA's HAL Master Executive Council, said the new work agreement achieves the union's top goals of protecting pilots' retirement security and other benefits, while laying the groundwork for future post-bankruptcy negotiations on retirement and medical benefits.
"This was a tough decision for our membership to make since we think that the Trustee misused Section 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code to achieve management's objectives and we're angry about that," McBride said. "But HAL pilots bargained long and hard for an acceptable contract to have a say in our own future rather than turning that decision over to the Judge. We're going to continue to work together just as hard over the next two years to negotiate an acceptable replacement retirement plan and new amended contract in 2007."
"Thanks to the hard work and sacrifice of all Hawaiian's employees, we now believe our airline can build on the success of the past two years. We're proud of the role that pilots and other employees played helping our company emerge from bankruptcy stronger and ready to compete," McBride added.
The new work agreement will go into effect on June 1, 2005. It becomes amendable on July 1, 2007, with both parties able to exchange new contract openers on Jan. 1, 2007. In September of this year, the parties will begin meetings to continue discussions on pilot retirement benefits.
Headquartered in Honolulu, Hawaiian Airlines is the nation's 12th-largest carrier, with 135 daily flights flown by 300 pilots who operate a fleet of B-717 and B-767 aircraft.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union and represents 64,000 airline pilots at 41 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
# # #
ALPA CONTACT: Capt. Kirk McBride, (808) 836-2572
A lockout??!! That is getting creative. And that after 20 months of talks to work something out. Unless labor contract language prohibits outsourcing or outside contracted labor then the union has nothing to stand on. The company can hire and fire at will. The union didn't have the proper language in their contract so it is their fault. This is the kind of garbage that turns people off of unions. The company manages (for better or worse) to include staffing. The union protects the interests of the employee. Too bad if the company determines you are no longer an employee. Happens a thousand times a day in this country.
One of many reasons why I will NEVER EVER own stock in an airline.A4sForever said:
Yeah, I agree .... I sold a whole bunch of NWAC a few years back for $56/share and $49/share ...... so then why in the heck are most analysts (specifically, 8 from the following brokers) :Steve Wilkins said:
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]CIBC WORLD MKTS[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]CREDITSUISSE FB[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]DEUTSCHE BK SEC[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]GOLDMAN SACHS[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]MERRILL LYNCH[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]MORGAN STAN,DWD[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]SALOMON SMITH B[/font]
[font=Verdana,Sans-Serif]UBS WARBURG [/font]
now advocating a current strategy for NWA stock of "STRONG BUY" (2) .... "MODERATE BUY" (2) ... and "HOLD" (the remaining 4 ......) ??? Hmmmmmmm ??????