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Aircraft selection

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
Yeah, I'm gonna dogpile on @nittany03's comment here because I don't think this point is getting enough attention.

If your major motivation for platform selection is whether or not you're going to get to kill people, I think you really need to take a step back and think about your motivations. Because even though you say "combat" really that's what you mean; you're saying it's hugely important that you fly an aircraft that has the potential and gives you the opportunity to take another human beings life, and that's REALLY not a mindset you should be comfortable with.

Just my $0.02.
This post makes me wonder if you're in the right job. We are all in the field of taking another human beings life, whether directly with a pickle button, or through support of the dude/dudette with the pickle button. It's called the military.

No one in this thread said they wanted to kill people, but that they wanted to be in the action. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and as a CO I would prefer the type that wants to be in combat over those that are scared of it. I've seen first hand what happens when the weak get put in that position and flake when dudes on the ground needed ordnance on target.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
This post makes me wonder if you're in the right job. We are all in the field of taking another human beings life, whether directly with a pickle button, or through support of the dude/dudette with the pickle button. It's called the military.

No one in this thread said they wanted to kill people, but that they wanted to be in the action. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and as a CO I would prefer the type that wants to be in combat over those that are scared of it. I've seen first hand what happens when the weak get put in that position and flake when dudes on the ground needed ordnance on target.
Stop being a prick and questioning people’s professional qualifications you’ve never met. No one’s saying don’t do the job. Just to understand its gravity.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
Stop being a prick and questioning people’s professional qualifications you’ve never met. No one’s saying don’t do the job. Just to understand its gravity.
I imagine this equation also changes when the bad guys start shooting back. That tends to change some people’s opinions of doing the job. Something that is less talked about here and the larger aviation community due to the recent operating environment of the last 10-15 years. I find our notion of “combat” rather misconceived vice what will actually happen in the next war.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I imagine this equation also changes when the bad guys start shooting back. That tends to change some people’s opinions of doing the job. Something that is less talked about here and the larger aviation community due to the recent operating environment of the last 10-15 years. I find our notion of “combat” rather misconceived vice what will actually happen in the next war.
Yeah, when the Angry Telephone Pole (a.k.a, SA-2) comes flying at you, I have to imagine it'll make some folks rethink their life choices.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
Yeah, when the Angry Telephone Pole (a.k.a, SA-2) comes flying at you, I have to imagine it'll make some folks rethink their life choices.
I’m not trying to minimize the last decade and a half either. A fair share amount of rotary wing aviators and attack pilots have gotten to experience effective tracer fire through rotor arcs, punctured aircraft skin, and RPGs.

One thing we also don’t discuss is the human factors in which we place on ourselves when we are put in those situations. There’s the added factor of anxiety and fear when the dude on the ground is breathing heavy and you can hear rounds going off in the background. It’s great to volunteer and take the step of wanting to be involved, but when it’s on the line and somebody’s life is in your hands... It makes the mind go through some mental gymnastics that we probably don’t want to wish on anyone. It’s puts the whole “Don’t fuck it up” comment into a better perspective. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about here’s a vid you might want to watch...and there’s plenty of other examples.

 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I’m not trying to minimize the last decade and a half either. A fair share amount of rotary wing aviators and attack pilots have gotten to experience effective tracer fire through rotor arcs, punctured aircraft skin, and RPGs.

One thing we also don’t discuss is the human factors in which we place on ourselves when we are put in those situations. There’s the added factor of anxiety and fear when the dude on the ground is breathing heavy and you can hear rounds going off in the background. It’s great to volunteer and take the step of wanting to be involved, but when it’s on the line and somebody’s life is in your hands... It makes the mind go through some mental gymnastics that we probably don’t want to wish on anyone. It’s puts the whole “Don’t fuck it up” comment into a better perspective. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about here’s a vid you might want to watch...and there’s plenty of other examples.

Not the right time to be conflicted about taking lives.
 

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
Stop being a prick and questioning people’s professional qualifications you’ve never met. No one’s saying don’t do the job. Just to understand its gravity.
Naw bro, I don’t need to know someone to read the words that they write. And when their unsolicited feedback questions someone else’s professional qualifications then I will call them out.

You see, I don’t know about you, but I live in a world where killing bad guys is our job. We practice everyday killing people. When we say “kill north man, lead group” we mean, I just shot a missile and KILLED the shithead flying that aircraft.

Nobody wants to around killing dudes, but if the Nation calls, and its him or me, then either be the hunter or the hunted. Someone who questions another’s ability to take another mans life in conflict is probably best suited not being any part of the spear.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Naw bro, I don’t need to know someone to read the words that they write. And when their unsolicited feedback questions someone else’s professional qualifications then I will call them out.

You see, I don’t know about you, but I live in a world where killing bad guys is our job. We practice everyday killing people. When we say “kill north man, lead group” we mean, I just shot a missile and KILLED the shithead flying that aircraft.

Nobody wants to around killing dudes, but if the Nation calls, and its him or me, then either be the hunter or the hunted. Someone who questions another’s ability to take another mans life in conflict is probably best suited not being any part of the spear.
Your point was sound but the make believe training air to air “killing” isn’t the best argument.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
All Naval Officers serve in roles that may require them to kill our nation's enemies. However each individual makes their peace with this, either by embracing it or calling it something more palatable, is up to them.
 

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
Your point was sound but the make believe training air to air “killing” isn’t the best argument.
My point is that we practice killing every single day, most of the time it's just practice. Unless you happened to be the one dude over Syria
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
It's videos like this that needed to be added to annual CRM lectures. Yes, there's plenty of benign things that can kill aviators, and those are worth discussing, but it's valuable to show how solid CRM can keep people alive in a warzone. For a lot of Naval Aviators, the war is far off over land right now. But eventually it will be over-water and things will be much more deadly.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Yeah, when the Angry Telephone Pole (a.k.a, SA-2) comes flying at you, I have to imagine it'll make some folks rethink their life choices.
Where is your war happening....? You can see an SA-2, those aren't scary. SA-XX is scary, and you'll never see those.

AVOID, Minimize, suppress..............defend.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
It's videos like this that needed to be added to annual CRM lectures. Yes, there's plenty of benign things that can kill aviators, and those are worth discussing, but it's valuable to show how solid CRM can keep people alive in a warzone. For a lot of Naval Aviators, the war is far off over land right now. But eventually it will be over-water and things will be much more deadly.
There's about 100,000 things wrong with that video and I only made it to 2:43. If anything, it's an extreme example of what NOT to do....especially leaving your VOX turned up and making people listen to you breathe.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
There's about 100,000 things wrong with that video and I only made it to 2:43. If anything, it's an extreme example of what NOT to do....especially leaving your VOX turned up and making people listen to you breathe.
Please do tell, Mr. JCAS extraordinaire armchair quarterback about worrying over VOX level when DShK or PKM rounds are ripping through friendly lines...
 
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