Advice on getting mental health waiver?

[exNavyOffRec]

Waivers make no difference, suicide study says

www.army.mil

That is a 12 year old preliminary study that was done prior to many of these issues coming up, it also just addresses "waivers", nearly all who get waivers are not for mental health. A waiver can be needed for a pin in an ankle, certain surgeries, shoplifting, or for a speeding ticket over a certain amount (which means 2 people both exceeding the limit by the same amount may have different fines which leads to 1 needing a waiver and 1 does not).

The preliminary study also only references those who committed suicide, that is a small number compared to those that actually complete the act. In my entire career only 1 person I knew completed the act while several attempted, not all had pre-service waivers for a mental health issue but most did. A high stress environment can push many to the edge and sometimes over it.

That preliminary study was done to give a single answer in response to a single question and it did that, but in the greater scope it is flawed. A person who attempts suicide is likely going to not be able to perform their job for a certain length of time or maybe not ever again if discharged/mandatory job change. That means more time and money are spent to train a replacement, heavier workload for those in that shop, which can lead to resentment of the person who had the mental health issue, which can then cause those that need help to not seek for fear of being looked down on.

I can tell you that over 2 recruiting tours I had 6 that I ended up getting waivers on for some type of mental health, only a couple had taken meds in the past. I know that 4 didn't last more than 2 years, I know 1 who retired as a CDR, and the other one is unknown. This doesn't include the one who was killed in a car accident shortly before completing his training before reporting to a ship, but by all accounts he would have been a success story. While that is a tiny piece of the puzzle it showed me why they take a hard look at those who have had mental health treatment.

 

[JKC@]

That is a 12 year old preliminary study that was done prior to many of these issues coming up, it also just addresses "waivers", nearly all who get waivers are not for mental health. A waiver can be needed for a pin in an ankle, certain surgeries, shoplifting, or for a speeding ticket over a certain amount (which means 2 people both exceeding the limit by the same amount may have different fines which leads to 1 needing a waiver and 1 does not).

The preliminary study also only references those who committed suicide, that is a small number compared to those that actually complete the act. In my entire career only 1 person I knew completed the act while several attempted, not all had pre-service waivers for a mental health issue but most did. A high stress environment can push many to the edge and sometimes over it.

That preliminary study was done to give a single answer in response to a single question and it did that, but in the greater scope it is flawed. A person who attempts suicide is likely going to not be able to perform their job for a certain length of time or maybe not ever again if discharged/mandatory job change. That means more time and money are spent to train a replacement, heavier workload for those in that shop, which can lead to resentment of the person who had the mental health issue, which can then cause those that need help to not seek for fear of being looked down on.

I can tell you that over 2 recruiting tours I had 6 that I ended up getting waivers on for some type of mental health, only a couple had taken meds in the past. I know that 4 didn't last more than 2 years, I know 1 who retired as a CDR, and the other one is unknown. This doesn't include the one who was killed in a car accident shortly before completing his training before reporting to a ship, but by all accounts he would have been a success story. While that is a tiny piece of the puzzle it showed me why they take a hard look at those who have had mental health treatment.

The standards for getting a diagnosis are way lower now. According to studies 42% of High Schoolers have some sort of mental health condition especially in coronavirus times.

 

[number9]

The standards for getting a diagnosis are way lower now. According to studies 42% of High Schoolers have some sort of mental health condition especially in coronavirus times.

I get where you're coming from, but I would strongly advise you to focus on "what can I do to make myself a viable candidate?" and ignore the notion of "do I agree with this particular policy?".

 

[villanelle]

Waivers make no difference, suicide study says

www.army.mil

One could also argue that this study shows that the waiver process works appropriately, and that the people who receive waivers probably are the ones who should have received them since there is no difference (according to this study) in outcomes. (And as has already been mentioned, this studied all waivers, not just mental health.) I'm not sure how you could read this and think that the military should just do away with waivers, which seems to be almost what you are implicitly arguing with your repeated complaints about how so many people have MH issues and it's not fair or reasonable to... require waivers, I guess?

To me, the study pretty much argues the opposite--that the line for what receives a waiver and what doesn't is probably in about the right place, if not slightly conservative. Because the people who get them (for that issue toilet-papering a teacher's house when they were 16, or a pin in their wrist from a break at 7 years old, or mild ADD not on meds, or whatever) after their specifics are reviewed do well. Certainly there is no credible argument in that data that suggests that because people who get waivers do well, no one should need a waiver. That's nonsense. What exactly are you arguing? That no one with MH issues should need a waiver? That you specifically shouldn't need a waiver and that somehow a huge bureaucratic system should be able to specifically account for you and your situation via their general policies, without reviewing your specific record? Or are you just complaining because it sucks when life sucks? If so, that's kind of understandable, but it's not really an argument for or against anything regarding waiver policies. And you haven't even applied and been denied yet, so maybe the "the system sucks" arguments are a smidge premature.

Your follow up comments seems to almost imply that no one can get a mental health waiver. That's decidedly not the case. Okay, 42% of high schoolers have a MH condition. No one is saying that those 42% are disqualified and can never serve. Someone will need to review their record and decide. Having test anxiety that was addressed with a few sessions in therapy? Probably gets a waiver. Having severe, repeated suicidal and homicidal ideations? Probably a no-go. Not every one of those 42% will be treated the same. That's the whole point of a waiver process, which is in between a "yes, we will take absolutely everyone" and a "nope, never". It's a "we know conditions, situations, and individuals vary, and we've created a system to allow for that, so we can look at individuals as individuals, and take it from there." But yes, the military is always going to err on the side of caution, and that does mean that some people who would have done fine are going to be screened out, because there's no definitive way to know for sure, so all they can do is look at history and odds and likelihoods.

So apply, and see what happens.

 

[Swanee]

\\

I don't see the benefit in allowing someone who can't pass what is essentially a basic IQ test and not letting someone join because they had depression as 16 years old. Any other job in the world would choose the second person. Now I understand that every pilot is wayy more qualified than the first guy and there is a lot more competition on that level. Especially when you consider that most kids with such issues it stems from abuse/learned behavior which is out of a minors control, and would likely change as they get independence.

Maybe I could get in anyways but from everything I've read on here they'd judge me more than someone with a 40 ASVAB and a DUI. (Enlistment wise again ik pilots are different)

Yeah. It's not fair. It sucks. Things seem to not make sense. The rules seem dumb.

Welcome to military life and the rest of your career. Are you sure you want to join?

 

[JKC@]

One could also argue that this study shows that the waiver process works appropriately, and that the people who receive waivers probably are the ones who should have received them since there is no difference (according to this study) in outcomes. (And as has already been mentioned, this studied all waivers, not just mental health.) I'm not sure how you could read this and think that the military should just do away with waivers, which seems to be almost what you are implicitly arguing with your repeated complaints about how so many people have MH issues and it's not fair or reasonable to... require waivers, I guess?

To me, the study pretty much argues the opposite--that the line for what receives a waiver and what doesn't is probably in about the right place, if not slightly conservative. Because the people who get them (for that issue toilet-papering a teacher's house when they were 16, or a pin in their wrist from a break at 7 years old, or mild ADD not on meds, or whatever) after their specifics are reviewed do well. Certainly there is no credible argument in that data that suggests that because people who get waivers do well, no one should need a waiver. That's nonsense. What exactly are you arguing? That no one with MH issues should need a waiver? That you specifically shouldn't need a waiver and that somehow a huge bureaucratic system should be able to specifically account for you and your situation via their general policies, without reviewing your specific record? Or are you just complaining because it sucks when life sucks? If so, that's kind of understandable, but it's not really an argument for or against anything regarding waiver policies. And you haven't even applied and been denied yet, so maybe the "the system sucks" arguments are a smidge premature.

Your follow up comments seems to almost imply that no one can get a mental health waiver. That's decidedly not the case. Okay, 42% of high schoolers have a MH condition. No one is saying that those 42% are disqualified and can never serve. Someone will need to review their record and decide. Having test anxiety that was addressed with a few sessions in therapy? Probably gets a waiver. Having severe, repeated suicidal and homicidal ideations? Probably a no-go. Not every one of those 42% will be treated the same. That's the whole point of a waiver process, which is in between a "yes, we will take absolutely everyone" and a "nope, never". It's a "we know conditions, situations, and individuals vary, and we've created a system to allow for that, so we can look at individuals as individuals, and take it from there." But yes, the military is always going to err on the side of caution, and that does mean that some people who would have done fine are going to be screened out, because there's no definitive way to know for sure, so all they can do is look at history and odds and likelihoods.

So apply, and see what happens.

I think right now too many things are disqualifying especially ADHD and Eczema for instance. But that does make a lot of sense, even so I have heard a lot of stories of MEPS being silly about things. Obviously a filter is very important for a high stakes job like the military. I think the Military would get better candidates if they were more liberal about medical issues. Especially for some jobs that do not deploy abroad.

 

[JKC@]

I get where you're coming from, but I would strongly advise you to focus on "what can I do to make myself a viable candidate?" and ignore the notion of "do I agree with this particular policy?".

Ya that's good advice no point in moping about it. I talked to the psychiatrist I saw and he said in his opinion there's no reason I could not be a pilot/military in regards to mental health. He also said its a good chance they still deny me.

 

[number9]

Ya that's good advice no point in moping about it. I talked to the psychiatrist I saw and he said in his opinion there's no reason I could not be a pilot/military in regards to mental health. He also said its a good chance they still deny me.

Unless your psychiatrist is in the Navy, his professional opinion is less important than what you have been diagnosed with and treated for. If push comes to shove and you need an outside opinion then they may want to know his opinion of your mental health, but right now your medical records and diagnoses are what the Navy will look at.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Especially for some jobs that do not deploy abroad.

99.99% of all military positions require you to be worldwide deployable, if a person no longer becomes worldwide deployable they will most likely be discharged. I only know of 1 person who is not worldwide deployable but that person was very lucky, all the others were medically discharged.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I think right now too many things are disqualifying especially ADHD and Eczema for instance. But that does make a lot of sense, even so I have heard a lot of stories of MEPS being silly about things. Obviously a filter is very important for a high stakes job like the military. I think the Military would get better candidates if they were more liberal about medical issues. Especially for some jobs that do not deploy abroad.

Medical standards are there for a reason. What might seem “silly” to you might be a big deal for the military.

People have gotten themselves killed or worse yet, they have gotten others killed for failing to disclose medical history - including mental health.

On the other side, I have seen candidates previous mental health conditions receive a waiver. Biggest takeaways are the fact it’s a past condition and has been cleaned by a mental health professional.

 

[Mouselovr]

Diagnosis, meds, hospitalization and suicide.

MEPS and NAMI are looking for these four components of BH in terms of disqualifications. Unfortunately, you check two of the four conditions for a DQ. Fortunately, there are waivers that are granted when an individual can show they no longer need the medications nor are symptomatic of their diagnosis after a certain amount of time. If you aren't DQed on the spot and get to go into MEPS, you might be granted a waiver.

Generally, if you can clear MEPS, you'll clear for non-aviation communities. However, aviation med is a different story. Several of my peers, including myself, were brought through the wringer of NAMI BH. Generally, those of us who ended up medically qualified never had any of the 4 components above, were given a mis/ over diagnosis or were very temporarily on mental health meds to counteract the side effects of another medication.

If you are healthy now and have a good case that you were over-diagnosed/ medicated for your OCD/depression, you'll probably have a solid chance. Stay healthy in both body and mind, stay off meds. NAMI wants to see your condition is "surmountable" and that you are now stable.

The system is incredibly frustrating and punishing for those that seek out help, especially aviation. However, the doc worded it best at my MEPS consult "The military is going to entrust you to fly multi-million dollar planes, they want to make sure they are picking the right people that aren't going to drive it into a mountain."

Maybe I could get in anyways but from everything I've read on here they'd judge me more than someone with a 40 ASVAB and a DUI. (Enlistment wise again ik pilots are different)

Pilot candidates with a DUI have to go through the same NAMI BH consult. So you'll be judged equally as them.

psychiatrist I saw and he said in his opinion there's no reason I could not be a pilot/military in regards to mental health.

Good. Collect ALL your BH documents including the original therapy notes. MEPS will need this. Get a synopsis note from that psychiatrist which states this. NAMI will want this later down the line.

Submit your stuff. No one can give you certainty of clearance/ waiver bc its up to medical subjectivity. However, only you know yourself. Let them tell you no.

 

[JKC@]

Diagnosis, meds, hospitalization and suicide.

MEPS and NAMI are looking for these four components of BH in terms of disqualifications. Unfortunately, you check two of the four conditions for a DQ. Fortunately, there are waivers that are granted when an individual can show they no longer need the medications nor are symptomatic of their diagnosis after a certain amount of time. If you aren't DQed on the spot and get to go into MEPS, you might be granted a waiver.

Generally, if you can clear MEPS, you'll clear for non-aviation communities. However, aviation med is a different story. Several of my peers, including myself, were brought through the wringer of NAMI BH. Generally, those of us who ended up medically qualified never had any of the 4 components above, were given a mis/ over diagnosis or were very temporarily on mental health meds to counteract the side effects of another medication.

If you are healthy now and have a good case that you were over-diagnosed/ medicated for your OCD/depression, you'll probably have a solid chance. Stay healthy in both body and mind, stay off meds. NAMI wants to see your condition is "surmountable" and that you are now stable.

The system is incredibly frustrating and punishing for those that seek out help, especially aviation. However, the doc worded it best at my MEPS consult "The military is going to entrust you to fly multi-million dollar planes, they want to make sure they are picking the right people that aren't going to drive it into a mountain."


Pilot candidates with a DUI have to go through the same NAMI BH consult. So you'll be judged equally as them.

Good. Collect ALL your BH documents including the original therapy notes. MEPS will need this. Get a synopsis note from that psychiatrist which states this. NAMI will want this later down the line.

Submit your stuff. No one can give you certainty of clearance/ waiver bc its up to medical subjectivity. However, only you know yourself. Let them tell you no.

Well I do think I genuinely had those ailments so I can't argue that it was a mis diagnosis unfortunately. The OSO I was talking to seemed clueless on NAMI as it was very obvious not enough time has passed from me taking meds and she kept telling me to apply now, so I don't know what she is on about.

 

[Mouselovr]

Well I do think I genuinely had those ailments so I can't argue that it was a mis diagnosis unfortunately. The OSO I was talking to seemed clueless on NAMI as it was very obvious not enough time has passed from me taking meds and she kept telling me to apply now, so I don't know what she is on about.

12 months off of medication and symptom-free is the rule of thumb for MEPS. You can google and read through the NAMI waiver guide which will be more specific, however, the general takeaway is all BH needs to have been deemed completely resolved with no chance of repeats.

If aviation isn't looking possible with your past history, dont be discouraged, you should be qualified for most things non-aviation if you clear MEPS.

Buddy of mine had to wait 6+ months due to BH after a disasterous MEPS consult. He's down here now as a med cleared pilot.

 

[JKC@]

12 months off of medication and symptom-free is the rule of thumb for MEPS. You can google and read through the NAMI waiver guide which will be more specific, however, the general takeaway is all BH needs to have been deemed completely resolved with no chance of repeats.

If aviation isn't looking possible with your past history, dont be discouraged, you should be qualified for most things non-aviation if you clear MEPS.

Buddy of mine had to wait 6+ months due to BH after a disasterous MEPS consult. He's down here now as a med cleared pilot.

how on earth can you prove there's no chance of repeats?

also could you spare details on your buddy?

 

[Mouselovr]

how on earth can you prove there's no chance of repeats?

also could you spare details on your buddy?

It’s subjective. You’ll have talk to some docs who will evaluate your current condition.

In short, MEPS deemed that he was not yet stable enough to approve medically after recent therapy .... and his eye weren't good enough for SNA. Told him to come back in 6 months. 1 eye surgery and 6 months later, MEPS cleared him.