Active shooter at NAS Pensacola

[robav8r]

Interesting article . . .

What Really Happened at NAS Pensacola, and Why – DB DAILY UPDATE

 

[P3 F0]

"If Allah wills it, it will recover."

If true.... I'm totally speechless.

 

[magnetfreezer]

No one would love to see this successfully executed more than me . . . in theory. I know there are plenty of officers and Sailors out there who could be trusted to have a duty weapon at their hip all day, and we'd be safer for it. If nothing else, it makes all hands more competent armed watchstanders . . . and that's a thing the Navy does as a collateral freaking duty on every quarterdeck in the Fleet.

But the sense I've gotten over my time in is that the military doesn't seem to be any different than the civ population. By which I mean there are those of us who understand what firearms can do, practice with them, and respect both their utility and their dangers. But there are also a lot of folks who seem to go mentally full stupid on the subject, which covers both "Officer Tackleberry" and "eww guns it's an evil black massacre rifle icky icky" types. I mean, we're talking about the service who made me fly combat missions over Afghanistan with two full mags duct taped inside a MAF bag, and instructions that I'd be sent home from deployment if I opened the bag prior to ejection.

I'd love to live in a service that issued a duty weapon to vetted personnel, regularly qualified all hands on personal firearms, and trusted their aircrew to make a Condition III weapon ready, carry it in country, and clear and safe it afterwards. That's totally doable, and not rocket science. In theory. But I would also rue being the staffer briefing that ORM slide to senior leadership. And where do we get funding for the ammo allowance?

The DoD recognizes state drivers licenses (for non-commercial size vehicles). A regrettable number of military die/are injured in motor vehicle accidents, but we mitigate it through MP/MA/SF spot checks to ensure licensing/registration, and the usual chaff of CBTs etc.

What if we adopted a similar paradigm for CCW - the instructor carrying a weapon at TW-X isn't doing it to directly fight an operational mission with the attendant quals, tracking a weapons system would have, but is carrying it as a person to protect those around them, just like they would in a shopping mall, etc. Recognize CCW, track in DBIDS/etc. if you need to, and intelligently manage the risk of NDs just like we manage traffic accidents without establishing a parallel "DOD driver" licensing process for personal vehicles.

 

[RobLyman]

No one would love to see this successfully executed more than me . . . in theory. I know there are plenty of officers and Sailors out there who could be trusted to have a duty weapon at their hip all day, and we'd be safer for it. If nothing else, it makes all hands more competent armed watchstanders . . . and that's a thing the Navy does as a collateral freaking duty on every quarterdeck in the Fleet.

But the sense I've gotten over my time in is that the military doesn't seem to be any different than the civ population. By which I mean there are those of us who understand what firearms can do, practice with them, and respect both their utility and their dangers. But there are also a lot of folks who seem to go mentally full stupid on the subject, which covers both "Officer Tackleberry" and "eww guns it's an evil black massacre rifle icky icky" types. I mean, we're talking about the service who made me fly combat missions over Afghanistan with two full mags duct taped inside a MAF bag, and instructions that I'd be sent home from deployment if I opened the bag prior to ejection.

I'd love to live in a service that issued a duty weapon to vetted personnel, regularly qualified all hands on personal firearms, and trusted their aircrew to make a Condition III weapon ready, carry it in country, and clear and safe it afterwards. That's totally doable, and not rocket science. In theory. But I would also rue being the staffer briefing that ORM slide to senior leadership. And where do we get funding for the ammo allowance?

After the Chattanooga shooting, our state released clarification on policies allowing personally owned concealed carry weapons. It also required AGR personnel to open carry Army issued M9s. That AGR requirement finally went away two years ago.

While deployed in a combat zone, for most smaller FOBs you are REQUIRED to carry a weapon at all times. That includes while going to the gym or chow hall in your PT shorts. The majority of people in our General Service Aviation Battalion (GSAB) have deployed. ALL are required to qualify annually on their primary, and if applicable, secondary weapon.

Not only are we allowed to carry at work, but the SF unit next to us does so as well. Customs/DEA personnel across the street open carry. The HITRON on the other corner, while not carrying personal weapons, frequently trains live fire from the aircraft (.50 cal). JSO also trains a block and a half away. Someone would be flat out crazy to pull off something near the west end of 9L at Cecil Field.

It can and has been done.

 

[DanMa1156]

Interesting article . . .

What Really Happened at NAS Pensacola, and Why – DB DAILY UPDATE

Honestly, I'm curious, but the article smacks of BS... some questions:

1. Do we actually base any troops in Saudi Arabia? I get there are exchange officers and FMS guys... but basing?
2. Swedes train at NASP? I don't think I've ever seen one there... Also "The Swedish and Norwegians were your typical vikings." ? What does that even mean?
3. Oh my gosh literally almost all of this is false:

The Saudi students have an entirely different reputation and structure to their training.[/B] While all of the other nations employ a form of meritocracy to be in the flight program, the Saudi students are typically the child of a Saudi sheik, politician, or member of a rich/important Saudi family. They all drive luxury vehicles, and flaunt their wealth to the other students and instructors. It isn’t unusual to see a Saudi student wearing designer shoes that cost thousands of dollars in their uniforms instead of their issued shoes or boots.

The Saudis do not stand any of the squadron watches (Like assistant OOD, where the flight schedule is executed), while other nations participate fully in squadron functions. The Saudis also have a cadre of senior officers in Pensacola, ostensibly to monitor and aid the progress of the students. They employ a number of former/retired (US) Navy pilots to serve as tutors to the Saudis, and also to provide instruction on how to properly interact with their US instructors and inside of American society. The retired officers also act as a liaison to the American command structure.

3.a None of the students are allowed to by contract stand any watch.
3.b The Saudis by virtue of coming from their Naval Academy actually have a more diverse student population than one might think - our guys were a mix of rich and poor and gave a good ribbing. All had expensive taste... only a few actually could afford it.
3.c I've literally never seen a Saudi in a uniform wear anything except his issued boots.

4. This part literally is 100% false:

Our instructors are told that we can only instruct the Saudis in flying.[/B] Issues regarding disciple, respect, or military bearing, etc all have to be referred to the liaisons. Those issues are rampant among the Saudi contingent, and are well known among the chain of command. While there are certainly some Saudi students who have been respectful and disciplined, the norm is an aloof, arrogant child who seeming feels superior to his instructor.


American and non-Saudi international students are expected to show up to the pre-flight briefs ready to explain all of the concepts required in the flight to the instructor (proof they study and paid attention in class). Saudi students often show to briefs unprepared to meet that standard, and expect the material to be presented to them anew. The norm for the Saudis is to pass the student regardless of performance, unless they are simply a danger to themselves, then they get referred back through the liaisons.

You can discipline them like any other foreign student... Again, none of them can be held for violations of military policy - i.e.: haircuts, etc. but showing up late = pink sheets like any American. Not showing up prepared = same outcome as American. It is harder to kick them out sure... but there are times in the ebb and flow of CNATRA that it's hard to kick Americans out too. Absolutely the Saudis should get a vote given they are the ones paying for their student. Ultimately, the decider still is with the Wing Commodore and CNATRA. With that said, several failed out of Helo advanced during my time, including one from my squadron.

 

[Brett327]

PSAB has been reopened to US forces in the last year with plans to expand US aircraft basing.

 

[P3 F0]

We'll see if this is related or not (i.e., one of the SA bubbas), but NAS Corpus just had a real-world lockdown, suspect now in custody.

 

[insanebikerboy]

1. Do we actually base any troops in Saudi Arabia? I get there are exchange officers and FMS guys... but basing

A lot more folks are in Saudia Arabia than most realize. Also, PSAB should be fully operational soon. I think they started putting dudes there within the last year.

 

[nittany03]

Given the fact most shootings ends up in a conversation about mental health, I wouldn't be surprised if Navy leadership is far too aware of its seemingly unmanageable depression and suicide rates to feel comfortable sprinkling guns into the mix, regardless of any mitigation or reasoning laid at the table.

The guns are already “sprinkled” throughout the Fleet. Armed watchstanding is a thing. The question is who should be qualified to be issued a weapon and when. It’s a totally valid question, illustrated by the guy at Pearl who just shot people with his duty weapon. But no one is using that as an excuse to stop armed watchstanding in port.

And these allegedly “unmanageable” depression and suicide rates get mitigated by treating people like human fucking beings for a change, not interchangeable widgets. Novel concept, to be sure.

 

[Angry]

And these allegedly “unmanageable” depression and suicide rates get mitigated by treating people like human fucking beings for a change, not interchangeable widgets. Novel concept, to be sure.

It might also help to make behavioral health one of the stops during your annual flight physical. Or, if we are going to want a real opportunity to help someone, just a mandatory once a year sit down with a LCSW. Those folks, even the ones working for the Navy, are pretty fucking sharp and can catch stuff most uneducated observers wont.

The Navy makes me take an HIV test every year even though my risk of contracting that (as a married, non-drug user) is infinitely lower than having unresolved stress or anxiety issues. Sure, it's more time intensive...but wouldnt it be worth it?

 

[squorch2]

The Navy makes me take an HIV test every year even though my risk of contracting that (as a married, non-drug user) is infinitely lower than having unresolved stress or anxiety issues. Sure, it's more time intensive...but wouldnt it be worth it?

gay panic

 

[Pags]

gay panic

Being married doesn't stop you from sleeping with people who are part of a high risk population...like sex workers.

 

[TAMR]

We'll see if this is related or not (i.e., one of the SA bubbas), but NAS Corpus just had a real-world lockdown, suspect now in custody.

They just called all clear. Suspect in custody and gates re-opened. They made a point to say they don't have any reason to believe a connection between the two events.

 

[TAMR]

"If Allah wills it, it will recover."

If true.... I'm totally speechless.

Smart move. You can't get below MIF'd for procedural knowledge if you claim you were exercising religious freedom, right?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Swedes train at NASP? I don't think I've ever seen one there... Also "The Swedish and Norwegians were your typical vikings." ? What does that even mean?

Red beards? Or maybe beer booze on daily basis? Beer is pretty cheaper in US than in Norway, btw.