Clux4
Banned
Active augmentation is coming back in full force(read: shitty numbers), so all that should be worked out.
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Active Augmentation and other force shaping tools
- Thread starter Clux4
- Start date
This topic could be a thread of its own?
This ?Career Designation? thing will definitely weed out officers but it?s probably not going to be a factor for jet guys with their post winging 8 year contract. Even if the jet Cone gets passed on their first Career Designation board, he/she will still have several more years to unfuck themselves & receive ?designation? before he/she hits EAS ? and before that EAS, he/she will already have two looks for O-4 ? or maybe the jet Cone has already decided that he/she is getting out and along with not correcting date gaps, not sending in a picture and not completing PME, he/she will not get career designated so he/she will practically be guaranteed getting passed twice for O-4 & getting kicked out ... receiving an extra ~$70k in the process.
SF
If you're not career designated, they don't have to pay you for being separated.
That money is for them busting your "tenure." If you're not career designated, you never had tenure. Whether you're out as a lieutenant at 4 years or as a captain at 10 doesn't matter.
If you are career designated and get passed for major, well, for one, you suck. Two, the Marine Corps would rater pay you 70K now than pay to keep a field-grade around for 10 more years with no billet.
That money is for them busting your "tenure." If you're not career designated, you never had tenure. Whether you're out as a lieutenant at 4 years or as a captain at 10 doesn't matter.
If you are career designated and get passed for major, well, for one, you suck. Two, the Marine Corps would rater pay you 70K now than pay to keep a field-grade around for 10 more years with no billet.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Things could be worse. You could make O-4 ("whew, at least I can retire") and be told "oh, now we've got too many O-4's, they'll be continuation boards to determine if we can let you stay until retirement if you don't make O-5." That's how it's rolling in the Navy right now...
Clux4
Banned
Career designation for aviators is funny because aviators just like the ground guys get looked at after 540 days of observed time. That is 18 months after checking into their first squadron. Since you only get a chance at augmentation, you will be shown the door when your mandatory service obligation is up. I never augmented in the 90's but those that did complained about great dudes being shown the door. If the rates are going to return to those of the 90's as they project, then folks better get ready.
So in the line of this active augmentation business...Over the past ahh, 24 months or so, every 2ndLt from every commissioning source has had a regular/active duty commission. That is, not a reserve commission which is sort of what made the active augmentation business work. I know that simplifies things, but if you're a company grade officer with an active commission already, does that give you immunity in the resurgence of the active augmentation process? Probably not, but can someone enlighten me on it. It's not something I've been given a lot of guidance on since commissioning because it's been a nonissue for two or three years.
The reason it's called "career designation" instead of "augmentation" is exactly that. Everyone now has regular commissions. It's a competition amongst them to stay in. Instead of only some commissioning sources being protected, no one is.
So on the aviation side this has minimal impact due to having an 8yr contract post-winging, correct?
What is the point of "career designation"? How hard is it to get selected as an aviator, and do you get more than one shot at it? I don't like the idea of having to think about more than just my next flight.
Clux4
Banned
Phrogdriver answered it in his first post. Generally, aviators fair better than their ground brothers. If you do not augment, you will be asked to leave Active Duty. You can always continue service in the Reserves.
As a Lieutenant, you are in a sort of probation status. Think of force structure as a big pyramid. If we kept everyone both good and bad, we would not have space for the good guys to rise to the top. You only get a shot.Treetop Flyer said:
I don't understand that at all. Why make the decision for aviators after 18 months when we have eight year contracts to begin with? 18 months isn't much time to sort out who sucks and who doesn't. I will have four years of unobserved fitreps, then get 18 months in a squadron to decide what happens to me six and a half years later? That seems really stupid to this lowly lieutenant.
How hard is it to get selected as an aviator? I'm not even touching that one.
Manpower decisions are incredibly difficult. The planners make decisions now that affect the force in 10, 15, or 20 years. For example, they'll try to recruit X number of officer candidates to make Y number of captains in 5-8 years to make Z number of majors in 10-13 years, etc, etc. They think they need that many majors in13 years because the Corps is supposed to be at total size N with a certain number of battalions, squadrons, etc. By figuring that certain percentages fail at OCS, flight school, get out after their first committment, etc, they can get a requirement.
You can see that a change in any of these things can throw the whole process down a flight of stairs. Say, for example, instead of 50% of officers getting out after their first hitch, the economy isn't so good, so only 20% get out. That means you've got a few too many captains, which will later cause a trainwreck, because then you'll have ridiculously high number of majors (yes, some will say just one is too many). Waiting for all those extras to fail promotion just prolongs the problem.
So, career designation serves as kind of a safety valve to allow the Marine Corps some flexibility to ditch the excess earlier. It achieves most of the goals of "augmentation" a decade ago. Back then, some commissioning sources got reserve commissions and had to get augmented to stay in. It wasn't fair, because USNA and NROTC got a free pass. This is at least a little more fair in that regard.
Aviators, due to the time and expense spent on them, probably won't have to fear the career des boards that much, unless aviation pipelines are really screwed up. Back in the day, though, some augmentation boards did slaughter aviators.
Just remember, it's not personal, it's business.
Not always ... the economy was shit or at least on a downward spiral during the last 3 years of Jimmy Carter (and the airlines had not started the hiring surge in '77), and yet @ 80% of guys were getting out of NAVAIR 'rons ...
Why ??? People w/ any personal integrity will just NOT work for those whom they have ZERO respect for ....
Not always ... the economy was shit or at least on a downward spiral during the last 3 years of Jimmy Carter (and the airlines had not started the hiring surge in '77), and yet @ 80% of guys were getting out of NAVAIR 'rons ...
Why ??? People w/ any personal integrity will just NOT work for those whom they have ZERO respect for ....
How much of that was due to a lack of respect of the president and how much was due to poor funding, post-Vietnam drawdown, post-Vietnam anti-military sentiment, etc.?
President Clinton, whatever one's political opinion is of him, was not popular in the military, yet did not cause a mass exodus. Force shaping did.
One man's opinion: that was over by '77/'78 ... most of the guys I knew were gone by '75 if it had anything to do w/ 'anti-sentiment' or 'drawdown' ... the 'rif's' were done but the bullshit was becoming more & more unbearable. PC was in it's infancy ... but it was recognizeable to anyone w/ half a brain. Plus, JC & his team did NOT put the military on the front burner ... just look at his State, National Security, and DOD picks ...
Then ... in '78 the airlines began a hiring EXPLOSION and the only question was:
"Why should I put up with this horseshit when I can get a good job, not be gone for 6-8 months at a time, stay in 5-star hotels, and make tons more $$$$$ ... "???
Connecting the dots was easy ...