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ACIP increase for all my (USMC) friends

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Is it really a surprise to anyone that the Navy is fucking this one away as well. For fucks sake, enlisted Air Force aircrew are getting $600 a month. That’s more than most JO’s and almost as much as a 13 year aviator in the Navy. Goes to show you that the Air Force values it’s enlisted aircrew more than the Navy values it’s officers. But hey, we don’t have a retention problem in Naval Aviation, right? And if anyone pipes in and says some stupid shit like “Big Navy has hard decisions to make on our budget and where we prioritize money.” Then look in a mirror, as you are part of the problem. Our “leaders” are so out of touch it’s freaking ridiculous.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
To be perfectly honest I expected the Marine Corps to be the ones leading the DoD in stupidity with regards to retention of pilots.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Best part of this: the article says it was approved by SecNav. I thought the argument about the Navy choosing to only pay certain people was interesting before...
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Is it really a surprise to anyone that the Navy is fucking this one away as well. For fucks sake, enlisted Air Force aircrew are getting $600 a month. That’s more than most JO’s and almost as much as a 13 year aviator in the Navy. Goes to show you that the Air Force values it’s enlisted aircrew more than he Navy values it’s officers. But hey, we don’t have a retention problem in Naval Aviation, right? And if anyone pipes in and says some stupid shit like “Big Navy has hard decisions to make on our budget and where we prioritize money.” Then look in a mirror, as you are part of the problem. Our “leaders” are so out of touch it’s freaking ridiculous.
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?

More money may not solve retention problems (and first, leadership has to acknowledge one exists) but not matching the new market rates for pay/bonuses set by the Air Force, and now it seems Marine Corps, will increase the exodus of aviators as individuals see this as yet another example of out of touch leadership undervaluing their service.
 

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?

Not giving the full amount is just a slap to the face. It isn't ALL about the money but the money helps to cover the smell of shit that is getting stronger and stronger.
 

STOVLer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Keep in mind when you grouse: Navy gets a "DH" bonus and a CRB. The MC hasn't had any kind of bonus in at least the last 10 years until this year, and it is a pittance comparatively: 2 yrs/20k for select MOSs. It is awarded at the same time, expiration of winging commitment. From where I'm sitting, the Navy still gets paid a lot more to fly.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?


Brett, its the message that the Navy is sending (and from your reaction, one you have bought off on). And that message is we don’t value you as a skilled aviator. Why take the chance of looking like a asshole when congress gives the nod to increase pay and everyone else is doing it but the Navy. Why give guys another reason to vote with their feet. Why can’t the bureau tell front offices what is valued at promotion boards? How is it that the AF leadership “gets it” and is doing anything and everything in their powers to show guys that they are a valued asset. The extra $$ in flight pay, or lack thereof is another indication that our leadership just doesn’t get it. And it’s not the $170 for senior officers, it was a jump in pay for ALL. And the Navy should be doing everything it can to try and keep the talent it has groomed. And the Navy isn’t doing ANYTHING to try and keep its people. Every brief tells the same lie. Naval Aviation is doing just fine. That is complete bullshit and everyone knows it. Patch wearers aren’t just walking away, they are running. JO IP’s at the RAG openly talk about bailing ASAP but being careful what they say to the detainers and front office because they don’t want to get f’d. NAE is fighting for itself rather than for its people. Paddles would say hey NAE, you are being reactive to the ball. I need you to be more proactive. If they were grading NAE on their last few years as a pass, it would be a no grade one wire or maybe even a cut pass. It’s well past time they get their collective act together. So, while this increase in flight pay may be something “small” and insignificant to you and them, it may be the straw that broke the camels back. Now go find a mirror and say “I am part of the problem” 100 times. And stop drinking the cool aide.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?

It's not so much that the Navy can win the retention game with bonuses, it's that they can absolutely lose. The decision to get out is based on individual circumstances, large and small, and telling the Navy's aviators that they aren't going to receive the full 2018 ACIP rates is going to have an effect. This is another example of Navy leadership shooting behind the duck, which is a perennial frustration to many.

Also, have you ever known people NOT to grouse when they don't receive a published pay bump? Keep in mind this was the ACIP rate advertised in the 2018 military pay tables, and we have yet to see a dime of it, or hear anything official about when it might be coming.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
one you have bought off on
Don't presume what I have or haven't personally bought off on, WRT targeted flight pay increases, because I haven't told you. My goal is to explain policy. My personal feelings are irrelevant.
we don’t value you as a skilled aviator
The message is, we value some more than others. From a force-shaping perspective, this makes sense. If I have money to throw at people, I'm going to throw it at those who are most in demand. If VFA and VAQ 1310s are getting out at a much higher rate than RW 1310s or VAQ 1320s, it makes sense to target the extra incentive pay by platform and designator. The DH bonus program has operated on this model for years.
Why can’t the bureau tell front offices what is valued at promotion boards?
They do.
And the Navy isn’t doing ANYTHING to try and keep its people.
This is unmitigated hyperbole. Standard fare for you. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but catastrophizing about every aspect of this challenge we face doesn't garner much sympathy for those who are doing what they can within the (trigger warning, Dave!) resource constrained environment we have to operate in. You may not agree, or like the reality of the situation, but we have to make choices, and in this case, the Navy is choosing to target that money where it will bring the most benefit.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Your goal on this website should be to say it how it is, ie a ready room, not be “Defender of the Fleet”. And the VFA 1310’s have not seen an increase in flight pay. So, it’s not being used at all, let alone being targeted to some. And what placement tells front offices is best guess. I have heard from way to many front offices that they are being told, “we don’t know what happened” way to often. When PERs 43 is guessing what a board “values”, that’s a problem.

O4 bloodbath a few years ago? No answer.
25 fewer VFA O5 selects last year compared to previous years? No answers
Select a guy to be the CO of one of the Navy’s premier units but NOT screening for O6? No answer.
Select a year long 1EP VFA JO to attend AF TPS and then not select for O4? No answer again from Millington.
VFA 1320, year long 1 EP from fleet tour, top 5 EP at the FRS, double tap 1 EP’s from 2 different CAG’s and NOT select for DH? Yeah, you guessed it, no answers.
OBOGS that we’ve been bitching about for years? No answers. It takes a freaking walk out by IPs to get any traction.

Unmitigated hyperbole? YGTBSM. Resource constrained, my ass. I watch big Navy flush millions away on a weekely basis at the depot and nothing is done about it. I’ve raised the BS flag to anyone that will listen, and the answer? well that decision was previously made, so....

I get it. You are in a front office position and are looking out for your next job. Nothing wrong with that, i guess. I would just hope that you would have the passion to fight for what is right with as much passion you dedicate to defending big Navys decision here on AW.

And if the AF and Marines can figure out a way to pay the increased monthly flight pay, then your bullshit excuse about constraints is just that, bullshit.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Don't presume what I have or haven't personally bought off on, WRT targeted flight pay increases, because I haven't told you. My goal is to explain policy. My personal feelings are irrelevant.

You always say this. You’re a person. One with a brain. A brain that can make opinions. Opinions are not irrelevant. Can your opinions change policy? No. But, FFS you can share them, like every other person does here. That may even be considered constructive, who knows.

I for one was interested to hear what you had to say in response to Dave. Of course I should not have been disappointed to hear your standard robotic reply of “I explain policy, not what I personally think.”
 
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