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Achieving maxes

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Jas1029

Registered User
Any advice for getting your run down to the fastest speed? I am going for the 8:30 but am stuck at around 9:30-40, and I run daily 40-45 min, and take the run test every three days or so.

Also if anyone has advice for getting pushups and situps up as well, I have about two months to go at the most to get ready and here are my current stats:

SU: 90
PU: 67
run: ~9:40
 
For pushups, I go bench heavy weights at the gym (start at enough weight to do 5 reps or so, then max out with 1 rep) and do tri's in the same session. I give myself at least a weak between each of these workouts. Also, I do no weight lifting starting about a weak before the PRT and focus on running. During the PRT, I start with my hands in just a little from my shoulders (regs say 90 degrees - hands in more means you don't have to go as low). This burns out the tri's first, which is the weaker muscle. I move my hands out as I go, which switches more to the chest. It has more endurance, and I hit 87 (max) every time.

Situps are mostly form for maxing. The key is to not do more work than you have to. Also, I find running helps because it strengthens the legs.

For both, I do as much as I can as fast as possible before resting. This is very key, because once you stop to rest your body starts to say "what the crap am I doing to myself - this hurts!" and shuts down.

To get a better run time I can't give you much, except that you might be exerting yourself more than necessary. I'd say cut the distance you are running (still keep it longer distance - 3 to 4 miles) and try to gradually increase your time on this. I was able to do this and got my 4 mile time down to 27 minutes or so. About the same time I got my best score on the PRT (9:06 I believe).

Right now you have a good score. Remember that it takes time to build up strength and speed. Keep working out and pushing yourself and one day you'll wake up stronger and faster than you thought you'd ever be.

Hope this helps.
 

Geese

You guys are dangerous.
Jas1029 said:
Any advice for getting your run down to the fastest speed? I am going for the 8:30 but am stuck at around 9:30-40, and I run daily 40-45 min, and take the run test every three days or so.

Also if anyone has advice for getting pushups and situps up as well, I have about two months to go at the most to get ready and here are my current stats:

SU: 90
PU: 67
run: ~9:40
Running for 40-45 minutes isn't going to do it. It's a great way to loose weight and kind of gradually get into better shape, but it won't make you a faster runner.

The only way to make yourself a faster runner is to push yourself, and this can be done in a few ways.

One of the most effective ways to do it by yourself is to do "fartlich" runs. You need not run for 45 minutes, more like 20 minues with this type of run. You jog a few hundred feet at a relatively slow pace, and then SPRINT a few hundred more feet. You should be sprinting at least 200-400 feet, and then recover over the next 200-400 feet at a slow pace, slow enough that it allows you to recover and do the sprint again. Repeat this for the entire run, but watch yourself because obviously if you exert yourself too much on the sprint, you might not be able to recover fully before the next one, so you have to do it smart, do distances and paces that allow you to recover. If you "push" yourself real hard during one of the sprints and you start feeling like you were not able to recover on your "recovery" jog, then do a little longer recovery, it's better than stopping or hurting yourself by doing the same thing. It will definitely make you a faster runner.

Another way (that works good with the above too) is to run with at least one partner, that way you can push yourselves. I know from running, biking, and a bunch of other excersises that it is EXTREMELY hard to push yourself when it is just you, even when you *think* you are pushing yourself, it is simply difficult to bring out your peak performance (which will make you better). When you run with someone else, it becomes natural for one runner to push out in front and try and make the other try harder, you can do it for a while if you are above the level of the other runner, but just having someone else there makes a HUGE difference.

The other way is to TRAIN FOR THE EXCERSISE YOU'LL BE DOING! Some of the best ways to train for a PT test is to train to those specific excersises and condition your body to them. For pushups I do (resisted with weight on my back) pushups. For crunches I do (resisted by straddling a weight with my arms) crunches. When I do these I am not "taking my time" and "pacing" myself, I'm doing as many as I can at once to get my muscles to fail and build up stronger the next time, and I do them in sets, or if I am on a "monitoring" day I do them just like the test. The more of these that I can do, the better, because except for the weight, they are exactly the same thing I'd be doing on a PT test. It does me no good to do a pushup, wait a few seconds, and do another, then wait a few seconds, and do another. That is not the excersise, the excersise is being able to do as many pushups as possible in 2 minutes. Resistance in weights during the two excersises (pushups/situps) allows me to improve the scores.

I know that you said you are doing the 1.5 every few days to monitor yourself, but I simply feel that you may be wasting your time with the 45 minute runs, just because it is very hard psychologically to push yourself to become faster when you are running by yourself. You can run for 45 minutes and improve yourself, but not without pushing yourself. I can't stress enough how hard it is to do this on your own, that's why there's such a big market for personal trainers and coaches out there in the sports world.

Variety is also key, I said that training for the excersise is important, and it is, but you can vary it a bit as well. Run the 1.5 on some days, to monitor your progress, then run a 3+ mile "fartlich" run, then perhaps do something else with a buddy. I'm a prior Army NCO and I routinely gave PT to my platoon and battery. There are no magical shortcuts, but there's also a ton of other stuff out there that will just waste your time as far as the PT test.

Lastly, the score you are going for is pretty damn fast, first mile around 5:30, and second one at around a 6 minute pace. I've seen guys train for a long time and never get down much below 6 minutes, when you start getting guys down into the 5s you start to seperate the "natural" runners from the guys that may never get down quite that fast. I know some people may disagree here, but I just don't feel everyone is capable of 5:30 mile paces, I led the "fast" running groups in morning PT and it was simply amazing how fast we pushed ourselves and ran, but it wasn't something that ever seemed to change. We had a number of "fast" runners, and we had the "medium" and "slow" groups as well. I NEVER saw anyone move up to my fast group unfortunatly, and we'd run at ~6 minute mile paces, sometimes faster. The whole point of having groups was to have people eventually "move up", but it never seemed to work that way. Physiology comes into play, and while i was only within about 15 seconds of maxing my 2-mile run time, there were guys from the maint. section that smoked like crazy and ran blazingly fast, for no apparent reason. I am not saying it is impossible, nor am I saying you shouldn't strive for it, but I've known a lot of people that have put in a lot of work running, and never approached 5:30 as a mile time, 6 minutes maybe, but it's quite a pace to get down that far, and again, SPRINTING and PUSHING yourself is what's going to make the difference and get you closer. 40 minute runs when you are looking for peak performance over a few minutes is not going to get you much closer to your goal IMO. Again, don't cut out 40-45 minute runs from your regimen, but include sprints, fartlichs, running with a buddy, training to the excersise, etc. Hope this helps and provides some insight.
 

Jas1029

Registered User
Thanks to all who replied. I'll be starting shorter, more sprint-style runs today and see what it does. Also for the pushups and situps using weights to build the muscles a little more, while doing them as fast as possible. Sounds like a great plan! I'll keep you all up to date on how its working.



"Insert motivational phrase here"
 

jburnes

Registered User
This is a little off topic, but is anyone else going to the Indianapolis collegiate day on april 23rd to do the prt?
 

ocstwentyone

ENS, SC, USN
Jas1029 said:
Any advice for getting your run down to the fastest speed? I am going for the 8:30 but am stuck at around 9:30-40, and I run daily 40-45 min, and take the run test every three days or so.

Also if anyone has advice for getting pushups and situps up as well, I have about two months to go at the most to get ready and here are my current stats:

SU: 90
PU: 67
run: ~9:40

What you are doing now is the perfect thing to be doing when you are out of season. You must have a stellar aerobic base, which is key to developing speed on the run. Having said that, I would only work on sprinting the closer that you get to the PRT (about a month or month and a half before). Start by mixing the longer running with sprinting on alternate days and slowly switch to all sprinting. Don't worry, you won't lose your aerobic base by only sprinting the last couple of weeks before the PRT. It is exactly what you need.

For the sprint workouts, the 'fartlich' that the guy mentioned above is great stuff to do. I would recommend varying the distances on the fartlich in pyramid style, building all the way up to 1/2 mile sprint/1/2 mile jog and back down to 100yd sprint/ 100yd jog. Also, good sprint training for a 1 or 2 mile distance is to run 8x400m sprints and walk 1x400m in between.

When it is not PRT season, the I would stick to the longer aerobic stuff. You can develop speed over the course of a month really easily if you have the aerobic base.

The last couple of weeks before the PRT you should be working solely on speed. Also, the last two weeks you should begin to taper. Which means two things. 1 - that you should decrease the frequency of workouts (bring it from 5/week to 3/week) and 2 - that you should decrease the intensity of your workouts. So, the workout 2 weeks before the PRT should be the hardest and the workout 2 days before the PRT should be the lightest.

You need to decrease the frequency/intensity so that your body can rest for the PRT. If you 'hit your taper' on the day of the PRT you will feel like $20 million and will run the best you ever have. Everyones taper will be different, so you have to feel that out yourself. On days that you are resting where you would normally be working out you should stretch and relax with some light calisthenics possibly.
 

navyjeff94

Final Select for Supply - 23 Apr 05 class
I tried the advice of moving my arms out and I noticed a significant increase in my overall output. For just trying it last night, I was able to do an extra 20 push ups which would put me into the Outstanding lows. Not a bad place to be before I start OCS. Thanks for that post Chris Hill.

Do you think this will be acceptable during the PRT at OCS or should this just be used for personal training?
 
Any suggestions for somebody who sucks at running?

I've got 85 P/U and 79 S/U but the 1.5mi has broken the 12 minute marker exactly ONCE...at 11:58.

I can do 3-5 miles no problem, just not at any kind of speed.

I think one of the problems might be that we do S/U right before the run...since my quads usually feel like crap as soon as I take off-doesn't seem to slow me down as much but I feel the way I would after half the course right from the start...which really sucks.

I've got all summer to work on it...any tips?
 
navyjeff94 said:
I tried the advice of moving my arms out and I noticed a significant increase in my overall output. For just trying it last night, I was able to do an extra 20 push ups which would put me into the Outstanding lows. Not a bad place to be before I start OCS. Thanks for that post Chris Hill.

Do you think this will be acceptable during the PRT at OCS or should this just be used for personal training?

As long as you don't lift your hands off the ground you should have no problem - just slide them out as you go. Good luck at OCS!
 
Hey I just found this:

http://neds.daps.dla.mil/Directives/6110/seven.pdf

It says pushup standards require that you go down until "upper arms, shoulders, and lower back are alligned and parallel to the deck." Now I've always understood the standard as 90 degrees at elbows (and previous posts indicate this as well), which makes more sense since different people have different arm/back sizes.

What's up with the above regs though? Anyone know? Thanks.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
vegita1220 said:
Any suggestions for somebody who sucks at running?

I've got 85 P/U and 79 S/U but the 1.5mi has broken the 12 minute marker exactly ONCE...at 11:58.

I can do 3-5 miles no problem, just not at any kind of speed.

I think one of the problems might be that we do S/U right before the run...since my quads usually feel like crap as soon as I take off-doesn't seem to slow me down as much but I feel the way I would after half the course right from the start...which really sucks.

I've got all summer to work on it...any tips?


I'd say for a run time that needs to come down for passing purposes, getting some distance is the key. Get out there and do some longer runs, at least 3 miles at least 3 times a week. Time will start to fall off.
 

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Ok now the cheating part... for sit-ups, but your feet as close to your butt as possible. This gets your thighs closer to your upper body. Therefore with your arms crossed, you can come up and touch the lower part of the thigh. This requires very little relative motion compared to a "real" sit-up, but it gets the job done and is perfectly legal.

For group runs, make sure the last person across the line is the fast person (slow people to the front). You can burn off a few good seconds for the slow people since the time doesn't start until the last person crosses the start line.

Push-ups... just do em.
 

OVERCOME

Long live the UFC!
jburnes said:
Marines also have to do pull-ups, right? I'd rather do push-ups and 5 extra sit-ups any day.
I'd rather do pullups. I can knock out 20 and be fine a minute after I'm done. But pushups.... my arms, chest, and shoulders feel very "rubbery" for a good 10 minutes after I'm done maxing.
 
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