Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

[RobLyman]

Funny, no one who was actually there calls it a CSAR, only people either wishing or trolling on the internet.

Not wishing, not trolling...just poking fun. Didn't realize the level of sensitivity around here. And yes, the guy across the hall from me right now, who was in Erbil flying non-gray H-60s, called it a CSAR in the same manner I called it one. #dontgettriggered

FWIW, the Deadpool quote at the bottom...I selected it because I have been to all three places (plus some).

 

[HSMPBR]

Funny, no one who was actually there calls it a CSAR, only people either wishing or trolling on the internet.

Whoever was actually there did call their FCF a combat FCF. 6K2 logged in green. Talk about going the extra mile for your maintenance team.

 

[SynixMan]

Whoever was actually there did call their FCF a combat FCF. 6K2 logged in green. Talk about going the extra mile for your maintenance team.

Put that in the same category as Hawkeye guys touching the boulevard to get Air Medal points. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

 

[croakerfish]

No, you can’t. A Navy -60 who does a jack of all trades and an USAF -60 who exclusively does PR extremely well are not the same thing.

I can’t think of an AOR that doesn’t have a RQS, MEU TRAP, SPMAGTF, or organic coalition PR asset that can do the same thing or better than CVW CSAR.

Given my and many people’s observation on the ability of HSC to do CAS, I can only imagine what a USAF RQS thinks of your ability to do CSAR.

I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here. What I was trying to get at is basically what you said. Ask some USAF Viper guys what they think about VFA and you'll probably get a similar take. I'm not sure the gap between HSC and the state of the art is much different than the rest of the airwing, which is not to say that I'm any more of an expert on CVW's than you.

 

[UInavy]

Ask some USAF Viper guys what they think about VFA and you'll probably get a similar take. I'm not sure the gap between HSC and the state of the art is much different than the rest of the airwing, which is not to say that I'm any more of an expert on CVW's than you.

Vipers do SEAD, A/G, and A/A. So, there’s that.

 

[Brett327]

what ever made you think that any HSC/HSM pilot has “lost sight” of their responsibility (nay, calling) to be there on call “so others may live”?

Indeed! I wonder how I could have ever gotten that idea...

HSC does it all, SOF, CAS, PR, and the fun stuff like slinging cargo. We also don't hate ourselves as much, but never get promoted.

See anything odd in that statement? Hey, SOF is #1! McCain is probably the most widely known JOs from the HSC community, based on his writing and social media presence. You'd think he might have mentioned Plane Guard, or providing SAR to the CVW because we both know that PR really means overland CSAR with a SEAL Team aboard to an HSC dude.

*Cough the HSC Commodores *Cough

And here we have the root of the problem. Your own leadership can't be honest with themselves or their community on what the platform's primary mission is.

Look, I appreciate that you (and hopefully most) understand the importance of PG and SAR, but let's not pretend that the HSC community hasn't had a serious and long-lasting identity crisis on this matter. There are hundreds of posts on this site to attest to that fact. You don't need an outsider like me to point that out to you, but every time I hear an HSC guy talking like their HSC squadron is an adjunct to the 160th, I'm going to nudge them back to reality.

Happy Friday!

 

[RedFive]

McCain is probably the most widely known JOs from the HSC community, based on his writing and social media presence. You'd think he might have mentioned Plane Guard, or providing SAR to the CVW because we both know that PR really means overland CSAR with a SEAL Team aboard to an HSC dude.

In Jack's defense, HSC Expeditionary ≠ HSC CVN. We all get fed the same Weapon School Koolaid, but it's possible he may have never done PG. He was right ahead of me in flight school, so we all hit the fleet just in time for sequestration. It was hard for Exp squadrons to find work.

HC should have never combined with HS, therein lies the root of the problem.

 

[Pags]

In Jack's defense, HSC Expeditionary ≠ HSC CVN. We all get fed the same Weapon School Koolaid, but it's possible he may have never done PG. He was right ahead of me in flight school, so we all hit the fleet just in time for sequestration. It was hard for Exp squadrons to find work.

HC should have never combined with HS, therein lies the root of the problem.

He did plenty of PG.

 

[Hotdogs]

I never said they were the same thing. I'm saying that the Navy cannot count on other services to meet our SAR needs, even those SAR needs that extend more than 20 miles from mom.

There was a reason that we got tapped to do the det to Erbil, despite an RQS squadron being "in the AOR." There is a reason that HS had to det out to Pakistan. If we were to go to war in Asia, where is the RQS det getting stationed? Navy helos doing CAS is bullshit and everyone knows that. Per DoD mandate however, the Navy is required to have self CSAR capability. I'm sure you can ask all kinds of specialized units what they think about other service's general units. But I do know what our RQS and PJ team said about us when we worked with them, and it wasn't full of the vitriol alluded to in your post.

I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here. What I was trying to get at is basically what you said. Ask some USAF Viper guys what they think about VFA and you'll probably get a similar take. I'm not sure the gap between HSC and the state of the art is much different than the rest of the airwing, which is not to say that I'm any more of an expert on CVW's than you.

You guys are feeling a little burnt because of something very simple. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. I have reservations about an average TRAP package going overland and especially in a contested environment. We’ve “saved the day” in the news for all intents and purposes but behind the scenes we punted into the stands and got lucky it was a debrief point.

Given your mission set that you execute and the training you guys do, I (and many others) have very little faith in your ability to actually execute overland in a contested environment. You don’t train to it full time (RQS and other purple SOC elements do). They are funded and program their equipment to do said specialized mission. You do other tactical scenarios and struggle as a community. Why would anyone take that risk when other elements are more capable and proficient?

 

[RedFive]

You guys are feeling a little burnt because of something very simple. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

No man, that's not it at all. It's because LEADERSHIP failed them/us. This is 100% a LEADERSHIP problem, or perhaps lackthereof. If LEADERSHIP tells a guy with gold wings to go do mission X with what he's got, he's gonna try. Even if he sucks at it, he's gonna try. Until LEADERSHIP pulls the gun away from their head/fitreps and tells them they can chill and not worry about mission X, they're gonna keep trying. And we're gonna keep having this conversation. LEADERSHIP needs to either commit to making HSC dedicated to being as good as the other guys, or scale back the mission creep and let them be great at what they should be doing. In the mean time, we're going to keep appearing as if we're half-assing it because, simply put, we don't have all the tools and resources to do it right. I mean we use a fucking grease pencil on the windshield to aim the M197 -- not exactly the same gear you're using to aim, is it?

Don't rag on HSC pilots for trying to do the best with what they've got. They don't have a choice to NOT do it. I signed up for HSC so I could do MEDEVAC and VERTREP, not so I could be Level IIIi in ASUW/SOF/PR. And yet I got every fucking qual because that's what was expected of me. Because we all wanted to contribute the most that we could with the gear and expectations we had been given. And maybe a little bit because shooting shit in the desert and wearing tan flight suits is cool.

Should they just let the 299s rot in the hangar? It's not the squadron's fault. It's LEADERSHIP. They should have never bought those wings, rocket pods, etc if they didn't intend to actually let them do it right. But here we are and LEADERSHIP shows no signs of changing the status quo. This is why my USAFR Chief Pilot texted me today asking if I knew this Navy helo JO who emailed him poking around looking to see if he could get on with our squadron. This is why HSC WTIs finish their commitment and peace the fuck out. This is why HT Instructors tell their students to go HSM.

Let HSC HC go sling ice cream from deck to deck all day and you won't hear anyone complaining.

 

[IKE]

Whoever was actually there did call their FCF a combat FCF. 6K2 logged in green. Talk about going the extra mile for your maintenance team.

I know no one cares, but that's not a valid TMR code ?

 

[Brett327]

I know no one cares, but that's not a valid TMR code ?

Which begs the question - if they actually logged it, would SHARP accept such a TMR code, or is it all BS?

 

[Hotdogs]

we don't have all the tools and resources to do it right.

Got it, you’re stuck between a rock and hard spot. This isn’t a problem that is specific to you. There are a bunch of communities required to be capable at certain METs but don’t get the funding to be good at it. HMLA and SCAR or DACM? VMM and every mission set they received or are receiving after assault support? VAQ running around doing A/A? VMGR and HH? Yeah it’s all the same shit brother. Difference is that those communities never lost sight or come off as anything more than just having a capacity to do a mission.

You have a relatively higher profile individual on social media implying otherwise for HSC. Confusing capability and actual proficiency. Until you actually get the funding to be proficient at XYZ, then maybe we should let the units who have the capacity to do said mission actually go do it and not lead with it. Lets not get ass hurt on where you stand in the hierarchy of proficient units in a given mission set because some random Cobra dude laid out an unfortunate reality.

 

[Jim123]

Which begs the question - if they actually logged it, would SHARP accept such a TMR code, or is it all BS?

That will be corrected in a future SHARP update. In the meantime everybody please review the R&I binder...

 

[Brett327]

That will be corrected in a future SHARP update. In the meantime everybody please review the R&I binder...

But we just got SHARP 7!