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ACIP increase for all my (USMC) friends

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Many in your camp claim that bonus money won't appreciably tip the scales for someone seriously considering getting out, and now you say that the Navy doesn't do enough to hold on to talent because they aren't giving some senior officers a $170 increase per month in flight pay.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?

It's a very small, almost casual, snub but one that can be piled up along with several other slights, indignities and ignominies that Naval Aviators seem to have endured recently from their leadership.

I'm confused - do the financial incentives work, or don't they?

I'll tell you what doesn't help, shorting folks a very small amount they think they are due as a right because they are professional aviators. Right or wrong, the optics ain't good. I'm very well aware of the resource constraints along with the other huge challenges that the military and Navy in particular face but the little things can matter too, like getting nice round $1000 in flight pay per month like your brethren in the others services are getting.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Resource-constrained? I'm with EODDave on this one.

I'm a proponent of the "broken windows" theory (look it up) as it applies to government waste and military spending.

Start with the solar powered stop signs in the 25mph zones on bases. Find the senior officers who signed off on those- it shouldn't be too hard. Publicly fire those people so as to set an example and deter foolish spending from the lowest levels. Remove the needless red flashing lights, the batteries, and the solar panels that power them. That will make a strong sign to stop waste (pun intended), really really really dumb waste.

There are every day examples like this of dumb, wasteful stuff that we've just grown numb to.

Next, leverage the synergistic effects, pivoting a low hanging fruit into a small victory and work your way up from there, firing more people who used their authority to waste money. We've got a IG fraud/waste/abuse hotline, let's use it. A transformational grassroots cultural sea change!

You want disruptive thinking? You got it. I'm a disruptive thinker and I just told you something I think, including an actionable disruptive plan. Execute!

Until we do that, the phrase "resource constrained fiscal environment" is bullshit.

The regular taxpayers in this country know that we spend more on our military than anyone in the world and by a long shot. They might not understand %GDP compared to historic norms, they might not understand sequestration, or budget cycles, programmed spending, authorization/allocation/commitment/etc., but they do understand what a trillion dollars means

You know what someone sounds like when they leave their windows open and then complain about their expensive heat or a/c electric bill? THAT'S HOW WE SOUND WHEN WE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE "RESOURCE CONSTRAINED" DEFENSE BUDGET!
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Your goal on this website should be to say it how it is
Isn't that what policy is? The way it is?
And the VFA 1310’s have not seen an increase in flight pay. So, it’s not being used at all, let alone being targeted to some.
The policy hasn't been implemented yet. I won't make any excuses for the ham-fisted way that word of the policy was introduced to the fleet, but it hasn't even been used yet. I'll wait until then to render a judgment on its effectiveness.
O4 bloodbath a few years ago? No answer.
PERS 43 doesn't own the stat board. That is a black box. From an admin board perspective, what is valued is well understood and promulgated to leadership. Doesn't solve the problem, but it rests outside of PERS 43/NAE lifelines. As for the various individual plights you cite, there's no way any of us can discuss those without having full knowledge of what was in their records. Since we don't, I'm not going to speculate.

As for the rest of your diatribe, you might consider that the things I'm passionate about and consider worth fighting for might not align with yours. Lots of factors go into that equation - background, experience, temperament, philosophy and understanding of process at the senior leadership level. I'll leave it at that. You're always welcome to your opinion, but at the end of the day, that's all that it is.

Opinions are not irrelevant. Can your opinions change policy? No. But, FFS you can share them, like every other person does here. That may even be considered constructive, who knows.
I hear you and agree with the sentiment, but I have to weigh what I can say vs. what I ought to say in a public context. That's part of the job and I would expect the same from many of you were our situations reversed. I have usually approached interactions on this site as an opportunity to explain policy so that people can understand the game and where they stand within it - particularly as I have become more senior. I know that is oftentimes misunderstood as me personally shilling on behalf of the institution. I don't feel like making a disclaimer every time I weigh in. Some people will get it, others won't. C'est la vie.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
PERS 43 doesn't own the stat board. That is a black box. From an admin board perspective, what is valued is well understood and promulgated to leadership. Doesn't solve the problem, but it rests outside of PERS 43/NAE lifelines. As for the various individual plights you cite, there's no way any of us can discuss those without having full knowledge of what was in their records. Since we don't, I'm not going to speculate.

I don't accept the "black box" argument. While it's instructive to explain that PERS-43 doesn't control the statutory boards, those boards consist of military officers who can give debrief points on the process "in the tank" and what is valued. There are opportunities to provide clear answers, but from the O-3 and O-4 level, it seems like leadership either doesn't care enough to find out, or would rather play the "I have a secret" game. If, as you say, the information is out there, it should be an easy optic to correct.

Honestly this flight pay thing isn't all about the fact that we haven't been given the allowable increase. It's also about the lack of PERS messaging on this issue of any kind. Despite known retention issues, PERS isn't doing anything to help itself or the various communities out by saying something like, "Here's why it's not happening, and here's what we hope to accomplish." Instead, it's crickets. The conclusion from the O-3/O-4 crowd is obvious- we don't matter enough to warrant any kind of explanation. Once again, the "I have a secret" optic is a big part of the problem.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I don't accept the "black box" argument...

Despite known retention issues, PERS isn't doing anything to help itself or the various communities out by saying something like, "Here's why it's not happening, and here's what we hope to accomplish." Instead, it's crickets. The conclusion from the O-3/O-4 crowd is obvious- we don't matter enough to warrant any kind of explanation. Once again, the "I have a secret" optic is a big part of the problem.
Call me a simpleton, but there are five valid responses:

Yes
No
Aye-aye
No excuse
I don't know but I will find out

#6, crickets, is not one of those, not when the questions are about people's careers.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Honestly this flight pay thing isn't all about the fact that we haven't been given the allowable increase. It's also about the lack of PERS messaging on this issue of any kind. Despite known retention issues, PERS isn't doing anything to help itself or the various communities out by saying something like, "Here's why it's not happening, and here's what we hope to accomplish." Instead, it's crickets. The conclusion from the O-3/O-4 crowd is obvious- we don't matter enough to warrant any kind of explanation. Once again, the "I have a secret" optic is a big part of the problem.
Wholeheartedly agree. PERS has dropped the ball on how this is being rolled out. Fair point.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Brett, I’m very well aware that PERs 43doesnt own the board. My original point if you go back and read it, is that PERs 43 is guessing at what they think is going on in the boards. We all know they talk to front offices as you pointed out. My point was over the last few years, they have been wrong on numerous occasions.

And spare me the holier than thou attitude about background, experience and understanding leadership. I worked for Admiral Buss and sat in most of his meetings. What you are doing is the same thing that most O5’s and above did. Tell him what you think he wants to hear and then nod in agreement with everything he says. Like I said, sounds like you are like most others when they came in to the office. Only fighting the fights you think you can win instead of fighting the fights that need to be faught. If you are one of the very few that actually speak up and tell the Boss what you actually think, then I apologize. But if you can’t even tell us here on a forum what you think, then I have my doubts. Either way I would rather hear what YOU have to say and think about it instead of getting your CHINFO news cliff notes.

And your “PERs 43 dropped the ball on this one” is all you really needed to reply to my first post in this thread instead of defending a stupid decision that the Navy F’d away. You know they F’d it away, but it’s almost impossible for you to say anything negative about big Navy and or NAE.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
You always say this. You’re a person. One with a brain. A brain that can make opinions. Opinions are not irrelevant. Can your opinions change policy? No. But, FFS you can share them, like every other person does here. That may even be considered constructive, who knows.

When Everyone knows who you are (or can go back through all of your posts and see your shenanigans and figure out who you are quickly) you have to be a defender of the faith and toe the party line or risk getting smacked down like a puppy that just shit on the carpet by your immediate bosses and big Navy leadership and suffer career consequences for being “outspoken” when you express your actual opinions...

You don’t advance your career by expressing dissenting opinions and being a thorn in leaderships side.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Good news guys. I've set a 2 month recurring Google Calendar reminder so we can have this argument again...over and over again.

You don’t advance your career by expressing dissenting opinions and being a thorn in leaderships side.

I don't know, of my 4 tours where I've had an end of tour debrief, 2 of them have covered how I was a "thorn in leadership." One of the two actually started with the exact phrase, "Gatordev, you've been a real pain in the ass..." Both debriefs ended with me signing a FITREP with a competitive #1 EP.

Technique only.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Some just call it being tactful. There's a right time and place for respectful dissent. The pages of AW isn't it.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Some just call it being tactful. There's a right time and place for respectful dissent. The pages of AW isn't it.
Quite true. But sometimes you appear to be a bit too eager to espouse the party line, rather than remain silent. Just sayin'.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Zippy,

Brett jumped in here on his own accord. Fairly sure no one in his chain of command asked him to come on to AW and defend NAE’s virtue. And yeah, there is a time and a place. However, I don’t think many front offices are picking up the phone or sending emails to chime in on these subject. At least in my very up close and personal experiences anyway.
 

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
Don't presume what I have or haven't personally bought off on, WRT targeted flight pay increases, because I haven't told you. My goal is to explain policy. My personal feelings are irrelevant.

Policy is something that is generally written down or given via a VOCO and unless I missed the ALNAV or NAVADMIN I don't know that there is official policy on why the Navy isn't doing what the other services are able to do. So you aren't explaining policy but rather your own personal feelings on the matter. Unless this policy is something that is only given out to the super secret XO / CO distro list.
 
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