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Life insurance

navy2014

Member
I wouldn't worry about it for now. They'll talk about it at OCS (one of many briefs to look forward to), and you can change coverage amounts, beneficiaries, etc at that time as well. Not sure if you are already covered, or if it kicks in when you check in at OCS, or when you sign your papers with the OR, but it shouldn't matter for the time being unless you need to change your beneficiary, in which case you'd probably need to ask your OR for help.

As for term life vs. whole life insurance policies, whole life is good if you can get a relatively good rate. Essentially what you're doing is paying cash into a policy, it grows at a certain rate, and later on you can cash it in. It's usually better than sticking it in a savings account or the mattress, but is not as accessible (or "liquid"). People usually use it for end-of-life expenses, such as to help pay for a funeral, since it never expires, so they'll get like $10k of whole life coverage to supplement a term life plan. Some people also use it for investment purposes and the like.
Term is basically you making a bet that you'll die in the next twenty years (or however long the term is). If you're wrong, no payout. But it's more common than whole life, because payments are much smaller for similar coverage amounts. This is also popular when someone has a lot of debt (mortgage, car loan, etc.) and/or dependents; that way, the significant other and kids don't have to worry about mortgage payments, etc on top of the loss of their loved one.
Like people have said, SGLI is a no brainer, because it's $26-ish dollars per month for $400,000 of coverage with no war clause. I have no debt and no dependents, and I still got the policy, in case I have more of both down the road. You can also start at lower coverage and increase it later on as your situation changes.

Thanks. Figured it was nothing worth thinking about, but was just curious about it because she made it sound like it was just for the period between MEPS and OCS (which would raise the question--why??) but I must have imagined her saying that. Was a long day, after all.
 

KTBQ

Naval Radiator
pilot
Whole life is a great deal....for the guy selling it to you. As an investment/savings account, it's pretty expensive and inefficient. Buy much cheaper term insurance and invest in vehicles that don't kill your liquidity and make someone else money.
 

CAVU

just livin' the dream...
None
"Whole life is a great deal....for the guy selling it to you." and the one exception is Navy Mutual Aid Association's Permanent Plus. www.navymutual.org . I do not work for NMAA. 100% of your premiums go into your policy, not the pocket of a salesman. NMAA is mutual insurance, not a company, and they have a small staff (last count was between 70-80). I have taken out Permanent Plus policies and the ROI over time has been very good. I studied them for a year before I started purchasing our first policies in 1991. They invest very conservatively...they tend to buy high quality long term bonds and hold them until full maturity. When I started to look at long term care policies when I was getting out, I found that NMAA has a no cost feature that after 60, the policy can be converted to a LTC payout. Problem solved. I'm not 60 yet, but the odds are in my favor. As to liquidity, you can borrow from your policy, if need be. They used to get the word out through the Naval Academy commissioning loan/policy.

If you are looking at life insurance as part of an estate planning tool for you, your spouse and your children, be sure and include NMAA in your analysis. Do it while you are young, healthy and insurable!!!

Always take out SGLI and pay the extra buck for TSGLI. SGLI is no questions asked. I've done a couple of CACO notifications. One to a spouse and one to parents. It's a little something to help them deal with the loss.

Good luck figuring it out.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
...

Finally, medical retirement means that you are treated just like a length-of-service retiree, but that you left the Navy prior to length-of-service due to medical reasons. You get a retirement check, an ID card, and can hit up the VA for additional payments. Best deal overall if you have something bad, is to be medically retired. If you manage to make it to 20, and get medically retired at that point, the rules now allow for concurrent receipt of both Navy retirement pay and VA disability pay, rather than the dollar-for-dollar offset. VA disability pay is tax exempt.

R/

Just to clarify, that is only if you are rated at 50% or greater. Here is a good primer on medical retirement vs. regular requirement and VA.

I was badly hurt ~ 9 months before my scheduled retirement. It worked best for me to drag my feet on the med board and retire normally and deal with the VA.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
"Whole life is a great deal....for the guy selling it to you." and the one exception is Navy Mutual Aid Association's Permanent Plus. www.navymutual.org . I do not work for NMAA. 100% of your premiums go into your policy, not the pocket of a salesman. NMAA is mutual insurance, not a company, and they have a small staff (last count was between 70-80). I have taken out Permanent Plus policies and the ROI over time has been very good. I studied them for a year before I started purchasing our first policies in 1991. They invest very conservatively...they tend to buy high quality long term bonds and hold them until full maturity. When I started to look at long term care policies when I was getting out, I found that NMAA has a no cost feature that after 60, the policy can be converted to a LTC payout. Problem solved. I'm not 60 yet, but the odds are in my favor. As to liquidity, you can borrow from your policy, if need be. They used to get the word out through the Naval Academy commissioning loan/policy.

If you are looking at life insurance as part of an estate planning tool for you, your spouse and your children, be sure and include NMAA in your analysis. Do it while you are young, healthy and insurable!!!

Always take out SGLI and pay the extra buck for TSGLI. SGLI is no questions asked. I've done a couple of CACO notifications. One to a spouse and one to parents. It's a little something to help them deal with the loss.

Good luck figuring it out.

The big thing is to shop around, for me NMAA was NOT a good deal, monthly premiums were over 400/mo for 500K life insurance, for others including some people I know it WAS a good deal.
 

utswimmer37

"Descent Planning"
pilot
All great info. I think I'm at a point in my life where if I put 250+ a month into an investment fund for the next 20 years and a little more into a Roth ira (tax free gains) I could hedge the risk of dying with 6-10% gains over the life of the investment, opting out of whole or universal because if I end up in the ocean the investment side of the whole life benefits won't matter. All this being said thay I now know about SGLI and my wife is covered should something happen. And great info on disability. That will definitely be a purchase.

Again thanks everyone.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
All great info. I think I'm at a point in my life where if I put 250+ a month into an investment fund for the next 20 years and a little more into a Roth ira (tax free gains) I could hedge the risk of dying with 6-10% gains over the life of the investment, opting out of whole or universal because if I end up in the ocean the investment side of the whole life benefits won't matter. All this being said thay I now know about SGLI and my wife is covered should something happen. And great info on disability. That will definitely be a purchase.

Again thanks everyone.

You can max out your Roth IRA for less than some of your buddies are making in car payments, and start investing in TSP as well. We had a thread going here for awhile on this subject, but it is a pretty trivial exercise in excel (or even a calculator) to figure out the advantage of a dollar saved at 25 years old vs. a dollar saved at 35. I didn't even have TSP available until after 10+ years in, but I retired at 20 with a healthy chunk in it.
 

Picaroon

Helos
pilot
Whole life is a great deal....for the guy selling it to you. As an investment/savings account, it's pretty expensive and inefficient. Buy much cheaper term insurance and invest in vehicles that don't kill your liquidity and make someone else money.

Thanks for this. Did some research on this as well and came to the same conclusion. Too many people get roped into this. Crunch the numbers and for most cases you're spot on--savings for liquidity, investments for long term, term for loved ones once you can't use SGLI anymore.
 

SDEngineeringDutyDCO

Reserve EDO in training
I think it's important to do your homework on this and to not to be too quick to discount the value of Universal Life as just being an "overpriced policy that benefits the salesperson and jips the client", particularly because some variants of this type of insurance allow the client to directly or indirectly capture gains from the market as interest, and maintain tax-free access to the cash value.

I have a friend who started one of these 10 years ago, maxed out his contributions year after year (think deployment pay here), took a bit of money from his policy cash value a few times here and there over the 10 years, and now still has well over $100K in his cash value due to his contributions compounding over the years.

If you wanna get more smart on how this works, I recommend a book called "Tax Free Retirement" by Patrick Kelly. It was pretty informative for me and really shed some light on something I honestly knew nothing about beforehand. With that said, there are some sleazeball insurance salesmen out there as well as really crappy products in the Universal Life arena that back up many of the claims that others have posted here, so do your due diligence in getting smart in what your options are and if a policy really gives you what you are looking for before you buy on the outside.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. Did some research on this as well and came to the same conclusion. Too many people get roped into this. Crunch the numbers and for most cases you're spot on--savings for liquidity, investments for long term, term for loved ones once you can't use SGLI anymore.

depends on your situation, my numbers for 500K universal 250/mo for 30 years payout 150K so I pay 90K and get 150K

I also looked at term and for the same amout of coverage it was 150/mo for 20 years, so I would pay 36K and get nothing unless I die, I believe I could have gone to 30 on the term but that didn't make sense in my situation as what I was trying to make sure was taken care of would have been covered, but that would have been paying in 54K to get nothing unless I die.

so for paying an extra 54K I get the same about of coverage and I get 150K in the end.

Interestingly enough it was the NMAA guy that said to shop around to make sure I rec'd the best deal and when I sent him the quotes to see if he could beat them he said he couldn't and that if it was him he would take the one I ulimately went with.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
A visiting finance professor I had in college was also an executive of Mutual of Omaha Insurance. It was an excellent, advanced course.

One day a student asked about life insurance. He stated that term was the only way to go in most all situations for those with dependents. If you need insurance, buy only insurance. If you want an investment, do not buy insurance. Instead buy an investment vehicle. If you want both and since term is cheaper than whole life or universal, put the savings in insurance premiums into a pure investment vehicle like a mutual fund.
Good advice from a professional insider.
 

utswimmer37

"Descent Planning"
pilot
A visiting finance professor I had in college was also an executive of Mutual of Omaha Insurance. It was an excellent, advanced course.

One day a student asked about life insurance. He stated that term was the only way to go in most all situations for those with dependents. If you need insurance, buy only insurance. If you want an investment, do not buy insurance. Instead buy an investment vehicle. If you want both and since term is cheaper than whole life or universal, put the savings in insurance premiums into a pure investment vehicle like a mutual fund.
Good advice from a professional insider.
this is the current route I am taking, only issue to some is the volatility. it seems to be the more cost effective alternative but requires a little more user input.
 

Tycho_Brohe

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
The other problem with using whole/universal life insurance is that the growth is tax-deferred, like a traditional IRA or TSP. In most cases, especially for someone just starting their military career, the tax treatment that Roth retirement vehicles get is much better. And if you're already contributing to a Roth TSP/IRA, tacking on an additional 3 grand per year for a life insurance policy is a pretty tall order, which is why it's generally used by high-income earners for tax diversification purposes (mostly because they already maxed out their IRA contributions).
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
A visiting finance professor I had in college was also an executive of Mutual of Omaha Insurance. It was an excellent, advanced course.

One day a student asked about life insurance. He stated that term was the only way to go in most all situations for those with dependents. If you need insurance, buy only insurance. If you want an investment, do not buy insurance. Instead buy an investment vehicle. If you want both and since term is cheaper than whole life or universal, put the savings in insurance premiums into a pure investment vehicle like a mutual fund.
Good advice from a professional insider.

If you are young like utswimmer37 is that is the way to go, especially if you use the 12% historic rate of return on a mutual fund as an example.

When I was looking (at retirement) at my age if I went just term and then invested the difference between the term and UL I would have been on the short end of the stick until I hit year 25 and that is 12% rate of return, anything less I wouldn't break even until year 27 or 28.

**If I would have invested 200/month from the day I entered I probably would have needed minimal term insurance, if any at all, and this is one of my biggest financial regrets.**
 
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