Diversity... what you need to know

[Gatordev]

What this "actually means" is that there is really nothing new under the sun.

I can't…and wouldn't try…to speak for anyone other than myself. But I believe I'm on fairly firm ice to opine that every generation in Naval Aviation has had to live with it's own myriad "leadership challenges". In every generation, I think that's why they always called it "leadership": as in "lead, follow, or get out of the way".

...

Again…every generation had its own windmills…you have yours. I'm sure you all will do fine. Choose wisely the windmills you choose to tilt…

Go NAVY…Beat Army!

Quotes aside (which I'd argue are certainly past challenges, don't really have anything to do with the topic), I get your point. I'd guess part of tilting at windmills includes calling a spade a spade....er, or heart, or whatever. If someone (male, female, blue with pink polka dots, or even a female Hispanic person with two stars above her anchors...true story) isn't performing, document it and then bring it up. Nothing will change if it's not addressed.

I actually think we're on the same page, I just prefer to call a turd a turd.

 

[Renegade One]

Quotes aside (which I'd argue are certainly past challenges, don't really have anything to do with the topic), I get your point. I'd guess part of tilting at windmills includes calling a spade a spade....er, or heart, or whatever. If someone (male, female, blue with pink polka dots, or even a female Hispanic person with two stars above her anchors...true story) isn't performing, document it and then bring it up. Nothing will change if it's not addressed.

I actually think we're on the same page, I just prefer to call a turd a turd.

We ARE on the same page. I never experienced/saw/perceived anyone to be selected/promoted/ advantaged/whatever who wasn't "fully qualified". The "unqualified", of any description, go away or go elsewhere. Sometimes there is a "next life"…but I think that's true for everyone who thrives while doing something else.

 

[Gatordev]

We ARE on the same page. I never experienced/saw/perceived anyone to be selected/promoted/ advantaged/whatever who wasn't "fully qualified". The "unqualified", of any description, go away or go elsewhere. Sometimes there is a "next life"…but I think that's true for everyone who thrives while doing something else.

Yeah, copy. Unfortunately, I have seen someone get moved along the qualification process specifically due to "diversity." It took a long time to finally stop the upward mobility.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

For instance, if you have a test that applicants take, and white people happen to score higher than minorities, you can be sued if you use that test as a basis for hiring.

And people that know their shit also tend to score higher than those that don't. I typically do a two hour oral board, not a written test. It's pretty easy to tell if someone knows what they're talking about or whether they have the experience that their resume claims they do.

 

[PhrogLoop]

Pardon my Francais, but F*** diversity.

Not pardoned. You lent nothing to the discussion but the impression that you are less than intelligent. Defend your position or hide behind the anonymity of the interwebs, your choice.

 

[Recovering LSO]

And here is the problem with forced diversity efforts... She may be the most qualified person for the job (and I don't know enough about the SWO/Gator Navy to guess), but she is now the "first black woman to....", appointed to the position by a minority President and there will always be an unfair shadow of doubt cast around her because of it.

In the end, she is the victim because her credibility is undermined by the Navy's diversity push - quite the unintended consequence.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

And here is the problem with forced diversity efforts... She may be the most qualified person for the job (and I don't know enough about the SWO/Gator Navy to guess), but she is now the "first black woman to....", appointed to the position by a minority President and there will always be an unfair shadow of doubt cast around her because of it.

In the end, she is the victim because her credibility is undermined by the Navy's diversity push - quite the unintended consequence.

Is 31 years from commission to a 4 star post like this a "normal" path? If not then it would appear this was "pushed"

 

[Renegade One]

Is 31 years from commission to a 4 star post like this a "normal" path? If not then it would appear this was "pushed"

I dunno…you tell me "what's normal". Here's a list of ~37 Navy 4-stars with 31 or less years of commissioned service before making 4-star rank…some as early as "26 years". A little homework goes a long way towards easing "butt hurt":

If this table comes out as intended, "Years of commissioned service" before pinning on 4-stars in "the far right number" for the officer entry:
122Worth H. Bagley01 Sep 1973 Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR), 1973–1974;Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1974–1975.21947 (USNA)26
162Paul D. Miller01 Feb 1991 Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(CINCLANTFLT), 1991–1992; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command(SACLANT/USCINCLANT), 1992–1993;Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command (SACLANT/USCINCACOM), 1993–1994.31964 (OCS)27
112Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr.01 Jul 1970 Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1970–1974.41942 (USNA)28
176Jay L. Johnson01 Apr 1996 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1996; Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1996–2000.41968 (USNA)28
72Ben Moreell11 Jun 1946 Chief of Naval Material (CNM), 1946.01917 (CEC)29
117Isaac C. Kidd Jr.01 Dec 1971 Chief of Naval Material (CNM), 1971–1975;Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, Atlantic Command/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(SACLANT/CINCLANT/CINCLANTFLT), 1975–1978.71942 (USNA)29
129Stansfield Turner01 Sep 1975 Commander in Chief, Allied Forces Southern Europe (CINCSOUTH), 1975–1977; Director of Central Intelligence (DCI), 1977–1981.41946 (USNA)29
131Thomas B. Hayward12 Aug 1976 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet(CINCPACFLT), 1976–1978; Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1978–1982.61947 (USNA)29
135Harry D. Train II01 Oct 1978 Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, Atlantic Command/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(SACLANT/CINCLANT/CINCLANTFLT), 1978–1982.41949 (USNA)29
138Bobby R. Inman12 Feb 1981 Deputy Director of Central Intelligence(DDCI), 1981–1982.11952 (OCS)29
188Thomas B. Fargo01 Dec 1999 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet (CINCPACFLT), 1999–2002; Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Command(USCINCPAC), 2002; Commander, U.S. Pacific Command (CDRUSPACOM), 2002–2005.61970 (USNA)29
136James D. Watkins18 Sep 1979 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1979–1981; Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet (CINCPACFLT), 1981–1982;Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1982–1986.71949 (USNA)30
152Frank B. Kelso II13 Jun 1986 Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet/Deputy Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command(CINCLANTFLT/DCINCLANT), 1986; Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(CINCLANTFLT), 1986–1988; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command(SACLANT/USCINCLANT), 1988–1990;Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1990–1994.81956 (USNA)30
165Jeremy M. Boorda02 Mar 1992 Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces Europe/Commander in Chief, Allied Forces Southern Europe(CINCUSNAVEUR/CINCSOUTH), 1991–1994; Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 1994–1996.41962 (OCS)30
166William O. Studeman09 Apr 1992 Deputy Director of Central Intelligence(DDCI), 1992–1995.31962 (NROTC)30
174William J. Flanagan Jr.01 Nov 1994 Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(CINCLANTFLT), 1994–199621964 (MMA)[25]30
178Frank L. Bowman01 Oct 1996 Director, Naval Nuclear Propulsion/Deputy Administrator, NNSA's Naval Reactors(NAVSEA 08), 1996–2004.81966 (NROTC)30
185James O. Ellis01 Jan 1999 Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces Europe/Commander in Chief, Allied Forces Southern Europe(CINCUSNAVEUR/CINCSOUTH), 1998–2001; Commander in Chief, U.S. Strategic Command (USCINCSTRAT), 2001–2002; Commander, U.S. Strategic Command(CDRUSSTRATCOM), 2002–2004.51969 (USNA)30
197Kirkland H. Donald01 Jan 2005 Director, Naval Nuclear Propulsion/Deputy Administrator, NNSA's Naval Reactors(NAVSEA 08), 2004–2012.81975 (USNA)30
201James G. Stavridis18 Oct 2006 Commander, U.S. Southern Command(CDRUSSOUTHCOM), 2006–2009; Commander, U.S. European Command/Supreme Allied Commander Europe (CDRUSEUCOM/SACEUR), 2009–2013.71976 (USNA)30
202Patrick M. WalshApr 2007 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 2007–2009; Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet(COMPACFLT), 2009–2012.51977 (USNA)30
101Thomas H. Moorer26 Jun 1964 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet(CINCPACFLT), 1964–1965; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief,Atlantic Command/Commander in Chief,U.S. Atlantic Fleet(SACLANT/CINCLANT/CINCLANTFLT), 1965–1967; Chief of Naval Operations(CNO), 1967–1970; Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS), 1970–1974.101933 (USNA)31
120Maurice F. Weisner01 Sep 1972 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1972–1973; Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet (CINCPACFLT), 1973–1976; Commander in Chief, Pacific Command(CINCPAC), 1976–1979.71941 (USNA)31
121James L. Holloway III01 Sep 1973 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1973–1974; Chief of Naval Operations(CNO), 1974–1978.51942 (USNA)31
142Kinnaird R. McKee02 Mar 1982 Director, Naval Nuclear Propulsion/Deputy Administrator, NNSA's Naval Reactors(NAVSEA 08), 1982–1988.61951 (USNA)31
146Steven A. White01 Aug 1983 Chief of Naval Material (CNM), 1983–1985.21952 (NROTC)31
150James B. Busey IV17 Oct 1985 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1985–1987; Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces Europe/Commander in Chief, Allied Forces Southern Europe(CINCUSNAVEUR/CINCSOUTH), 1987–1989.41954 (NAVCAD)31
156Leon A. Edney01 Oct 1988 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1988–1990; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command (SACLANT/USCINCLANT), 1990–1992.41957 (USNA)31
157Bruce DeMars01 Nov 1988 Director, Naval Nuclear Propulsion/Deputy Administrator, NNSA's Naval Reactors(NAVSEA 08), 1988–1996.81957 (USNA)31
173Ronald J. Zlatoper05 Oct 1994 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet(CINCPACFLT), 1994–1996.21963 (NROTC)31
175Joseph W. Prueher01 Jun 1995 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1995–1996; Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Command (USCINCPAC), 1996–1999.41964 (USNA)31
179Harold W. Gehman Jr.01 Oct 1996 Vice Chief of Naval Operations (VCNO), 1996–1997; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command (SACLANT/USCINCACOM), 1997–1999; Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic/Commander in Chief, U.S. Joint Forces Command(SACLANT/USCINCJFCOM), 1999–2000.41965 (NROTC)31
180Archie R. Clemins01 Jan 1997 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet(CINCPACFLT), 1996–1999.21966 (NROTC)31
183Richard W. Mies01 Aug 1998 Commander in Chief, U.S. Strategic Command (USCINCSTRAT), 1998–2001.31967 (USNA)31
186Dennis C. Blair01 May 1999 Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Command(USCINCPAC), 1999–2002.31968 (USNA)31
187Vernon E. Clark01 Nov 1999 Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet(CINCLANTFLT), 1999–2000; Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), 2000–2005.61968 (OCS)31
214John M. Richardson02 Nov 2012 Director, Naval Nuclear Propulsion/Deputy Administrator, NNSA's Naval Reactors(NAVSEA 08),[26] 2012–present.11982 (USNA)31

 

[Spekkio]

ADM Greenert was appointed VCNO in 32 YCS, ADM Ferguson in 33 YCS, ADM Walsh in 30. YCS, so 31 YCS doesn't seem out of the realm of 'normal' for the past 3 VCNOs, and I don't feel like looking back further than that.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

So it seems she is on track then, so there shouldn't be any controversy, just another person moving to the VCNO position.

 

[Recovering LSO]

A little homework goes a long way towards easing "butt hurt"

Okie doke...

 

[ltedge46]

And here is the problem with forced diversity efforts...

As always, the comments from readers after the article are far more entertaining than the actual article, like this one....

"I stopped reading at "President Obama has tapped Vice Adm. Michelle Howard""

I see her around the building every once in a while, all I can say is, I wouldn't want the job.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

"I stopped reading at "President Obama has tapped Vice Adm. Michelle Howard""

That went over my head for a minute.... maybe this is the real reason the first lady was glaring at the president during that picture.

 

[BackOrdered]

That went over my head for a minute.... maybe this is the real reason the first lady was glaring at the president during that picture.

You owe me a new PC monitor.

 

[Recovering LSO]

And here is the problem with forced diversity efforts... She may be the most qualified person for the job (and I don't know enough about the SWO/Gator Navy to guess), but she is now the "first black woman to....", appointed to the position by a minority President and there will always be an unfair shadow of doubt cast around her because of it.

In the end, she is the victim because her credibility is undermined by the Navy's diversity push - quite the unintended consequence.

Hmmm. Who didn't see this coming? She' about to put on a fourth star and this is the narrative.

And apparently we need more training - we don't look quite right yet?

Diversity of thought and experience? Absolutely needed. Using race and gender as a proxy for this experience? Despicable.

A little homework goes a long way towards easing "butt hurt"