Best Officer Positions to break into the Intelligence Community

[KennyPowers]

Hello everyone,

Ive been frequenting this site religiously for the past two years but this is my very first post. My question is, aside from intel, information wafare, and aviation, what are the best officer careers, if any, for pursuing a career in Intel. I know this is somewhat of a strange question but I have a dilemma on my hands.

I originally scored a 49 on the OAR (havent taken the whole ASTB) when I applied for BDCP in 2010. I was a sophomore in college then and I just graduated this august with a degree in International Studies and a minor in Intelligence and Security Studies (from one of the most recognized intel programs among the intelligence community). Also, I have moderate to advanced Japanese proficiency and graduated with a 3.5 GPA. I am now applying to OCS and desire most to go intel or aviation (for which I must take the whole ASTB). However, my recruiter has advised me to stick with my OAR score and just go without because the 49 is enough and he doesn't want me to risk decreasing my score by retaking the ASTB.

I am torn about this because I have been studying hardcore for the ASTB for around 3 months now and I am confident that I can improve my score. But since I am told that I have a stellar package with far more than enough references and LORs from high-ranking faculty members, military officers, and civilian IC employees, some US marshal intel experience from internship and volunteer hours, and good bit of leadership experiemcd due to holding high leadership positions in two major organizations, that a 49 will not stand in my way too much for intel. (Sorry for the huge run-on)

So essentially my question is, if I were to go ahead and keep the 49, would careers like SWO and Supply give me any type preparation for the intelligence community? Would I be able to use any of my above-listed skills as a SWO or Supply? Or should I just go ahead and retake the ASTB and shoot for intel and aviation? My heart is in intel and aviation just seems incredible, but what I want most is become a naval officer of course. I just need advice on which path I should take. (Sorry about the long-winded question)

 

[Renegade One]

Hello everyone,

Ive been frequenting this site religiously for the past two years but this is my very first post. My question is, aside from intel, information wafare, and aviation, what are the best officer careers, if any, for pursuing a career in Intel. ...would careers like SWO and Supply give me any type preparation for the intelligence community?

From "outside" the Intel Community to start, I think that ANY URL designator (assuming you earn your Primary Warfare Qualification in the appropriate timeframe and that you complete a meaningful tour in same) is you best path to "Go Spooky" if that still floats your boat over time.

I really don't think that ANY "Staff Corps" designator/training/initial utilization/fleet experience would mean much in terms of getting into Intel.

Just my $.02.

 

[G33K]

Joining the navy with hopes of transitioning to the IC is dumb, unless you've already been rejected by the big agencies.....even then, still kinda dumb. Military analysts are generally not held in high regard within the beltway and are rarely hired, especially when competing against ivy league grads who are native speakers of a target language. Want more a more techie intel job? Then you're competing with engineers with advanced degrees from MIT, JHU et cetera. The IC does not have trouble finding extremely well qualified applicants.

Hell, it is RARE for an intel O to be an actual analyst. You will largely be regurgitating short bits of information produced by a much larger entity, or helping with plans. Typically if a retiring intel O stays in the field, he/she remains with their branch of service, usually as a GS-12 or 13. Vast majority of retiring intel Os find work in other industries. Flyers can chime in here, but in my experience, it is almost unheard of a retiring pilot to join the IC in some capacity that isn't directly tied to aviation. Again, 33 year old P-3/f-18 pilot who can fly the jet with related experience/knowledge, versus a 27 year old masters/PHD grad from the ivy league? You can see why it doesn't often work out.

If you join the Navy with the hopes of transitioning to bigger IC, your best bet is probably IW, which would be appealing to a wider range of IC shops. There are just too many intel officers with no true analytical experience. There is always the chance that with a clearance you could hope for a contractor job, which may give you agency experience that could propel you into a permanent civilian job.

I am not trying to discourage you from applying, the military intel Os that I know, especially those working with big Agencies(which does happen) or flying units all enjoy it for the most part, and there are still plenty of chances on the military side to do cool shit. However, there are just as many stuck in shitty units, doing shitty work on a network that is slower than 56k. I have seen too many intel Os get out at first light thinking it will be a cake walk finding a job, and they quickly hit the "oh shit" button when they realize who they are competing against.

Spears welcome

 

[robav8r]

Joining the navy with hopes of transitioning to the IC is dumb, unless you've already been rejected by the big agencies.....even then, still kinda dumb. Military analysts are generally not held in high regard within the beltway and are rarely hired, especially when competing against ivy league grads who are native speakers of a target language. Want more a more techie intel job? Then you're competing with engineers with advanced degrees from MIT, JHU et cetera. The IC does not have trouble finding extremely well qualified applicants.

Hell, it is RARE for an intel O to be an actual analyst. You will largely be regurgitating short bits of information produced by a much larger entity, or helping with plans. Typically if a retiring intel O stays in the field, he/she remains with their branch of service, usually as a GS-12 or 13. Vast majority of retiring intel Os find work in other industries. Flyers can chime in here, but in my experience, it is almost unheard of a retiring pilot to join the IC in some capacity that isn't directly tied to aviation. Again, 33 year old P-3/f-18 pilot who can fly the jet with related experience/knowledge, versus a 27 year old masters/PHD grad from the ivy league? You can see why it doesn't often work out.

If you join the Navy with the hopes of transitioning to bigger IC, your best bet is probably IW, which would be appealing to a wider range of IC shops. There are just too many intel officers with no true analytical experience. There is always the chance that with a clearance you could hope for a contractor job, which may give you agency experience that could propel you into a permanent civilian job.

I am not trying to discourage you from applying, the military intel Os that I know, especially those working with big Agencies(which does happen) or flying units all enjoy it for the most part, and there are still plenty of chances on the military side to do cool shit. However, there are just as many stuck in shitty units, doing shitty work on a network that is slower than 56k. I have seen too many intel Os get out at first light thinking it will be a cake walk finding a job, and they quickly hit the "oh shit" button when they realize who they are competing against.

Spears welcome

Are you "in" the IC? And . . . . do you have any active duty, deployed experience with any service in any capacity?

 

[helolumpy]

Are you "in" the IC? And . . . . do you have any active duty, deployed experience with any service in any capacity?

This.

One more reason why filling out your profile helps to lend some credibility to your argument.

With just some generic statements in your profile, I know I'm reluctant to accept any mentoring, advice or gouge because you may be using "direct rectal extraction" as a source for your post.

 

[Flash]

Are you "in" the IC? And . . . . do you have any active duty, deployed experience with any service in any capacity?

Probably the only agency that really matters!

Spears welcome

Okay, inbound.

Joining the navy with hopes of transitioning to the IC is dumb, unless you've already been rejected by the big agencies.....even then, still kinda dumb. Military analysts are generally not held in high regard within the beltway and are rarely hired, especially when competing against ivy league grads who are native speakers of a target language.

Where to begin.......transitioning from the military, and that would include the Navy, to the IC is a well-worn and common path for thousands of veterans of all stripes who have done everything from intel to infantry and even, believe it or not, aviators! When it comes specifically to analysts former military are actually sought out by some agencies and offices/shops specifically because, I know that this might come as a shock to you, they have relevant experience on what they are actually analyzing. Who better to write about Chinese ground forces than a former infantryman or tanker? Or about how good an air force actually is, more than just showing off at air shows? You think an Ivy League grad that knows Farsi is going to be able to tell the good from the good from the bad info on IRIAF F-4 pilots actually know what they are doing once they get off deck? Or if PLAN Marines actually know what they are doing when they play on the beach? One particular office in the IC that comes to mind actually uses active duty and former aviators to do analysis on current threats and they come up with some of the best stuff out there.

Want more a more techie intel job? Then you're competing with engineers with advanced degrees from MIT, JHU et cetera. The IC does not have trouble finding extremely well qualified applicants.

Again, real-world experience actually outweighs book smarts many times especially when dealing even with 'techie intel jobs'. Just like I have met many an 'average Joe/Jane' who thinks that you need an engineering degree to fly in the military when all you really need is a degree and even then we have GED grads who fly.

Hell, it is RARE for an intel O to be an actual analyst......Flyers can chime in here, but in my experience....

And your problem, obviously your experience isn't very broad or deep.

Again, 33 year old P-3/f-18 pilot who can fly the jet with related experience/knowledge, versus a 27 year old masters/PHD grad from the ivy league? You can see why it doesn't often work out.

I almost feel bad for that poor Ivy Leaguer.......

......it is almost unheard of a retiring pilot to join the IC in some capacity that isn't directly tied to aviation.

Now you just need to stop and quit talking out of your ass.

I am not trying to discourage you from applying, the military intel Os that I know.......there are just as many stuck in shitty units, doing shitty work on a network that is slower than 56k.

If you think how fast your internet connection is directly connected to how important, useful or satisfying your work or worth well.....good for you.

......If you join the Navy with the hopes of transitioning to bigger IC, your best bet is probably IW, which would be appealing to a wider range of IC shops. There are just too many intel officers with no true analytical experience.

Probably the only two things you say that are somewhat true.

 

[KennyPowers]

Thank you for all of your quick responses! What I have gotten so far is that SWO would be the better decision due to the fact that Supply is a Staff Corps and cannot earn a URL designator. So given my OAR score and the details of my package that I have provided, would you guys advise me to take the exam again or to stick with what I have and just drop hopes of aviation? Given your answers, aviation seems like a great field to break into the IC with, if you choose to do so. Is it that much better than SWO (in regards to appealing to the IC) to take the risk and retake the exam?

 

[BigRed389]

Thank you for all of your quick responses! What I have gotten so far is that SWO would be the better decision due to the fact that Supply is a Staff Corps and cannot earn a URL designator. So given my OAR score and the details of my package that I have provided, would you guys advise me to take the exam again or to stick with what I have and just drop hopes of aviation? Given your answers, aviation seems like a great field to break into the IC with, if you choose to do so. Is it that much better than SWO (in regards to appealing to the IC) to take the risk and retake the exam?

The main reason I would recommend SWO is that unless something changed very recently, you can set up an option to go into Intel, IW, or IP directly from SWO. In other words, you do your time as a SWO, then you exercise your option to go into whichever one of those communities you signed on for from the start. You have to make sure it's specified when you sign up though, or you end up competing with everyone else in "gen pop."

That of course, is if you want to break into the Navy's Intel communities early. To go into the agencies outside DOD, no idea.

 

[jmcquate]

Have you tried applying to some 3 letters? Priors have some advantages as posted above, but you should at least try. The old school model of the Harvard/Yale old boys club is not the current situation (hasn't been for a while). If IC is what you want then go to their web pages and apply. Be aware though. the background investigations are rigorous and quite personally invasive. So keep your life boring.
Just a little advice from someone who's been through it.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Thank you for all of your quick responses! What I have gotten so far is that SWO would be the better decision due to the fact that Supply is a Staff Corps and cannot earn a URL designator. So given my OAR score and the details of my package that I have provided, would you guys advise me to take the exam again or to stick with what I have and just drop hopes of aviation? Given your answers, aviation seems like a great field to break into the IC with, if you choose to do so. Is it that much better than SWO (in regards to appealing to the IC) to take the risk and retake the exam?

OAR is not what make or breaks an application, it is the other stuff such as degree, GPA, leadership, etc.....

your stats are fine for SWO and you should be competitive.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The main reason I would recommend SWO is that unless something changed very recently, you can set up an option to go into Intel, IW, or IP directly from SWO. In other words, you do your time as a SWO, then you exercise your option to go into whichever one of those communities you signed on for from the start. You have to make sure it's specified when you sign up though, or you end up competing with everyone else in "gen pop."

That of course, is if you want to break into the Navy's Intel communities early. To go into the agencies outside DOD, no idea.

The SWO options are generally single digits each year (Intel had 0 SWO options for FY13)

 

[BigRed389]

The SWO options are generally single digits each year (Intel had 0 SWO options for FY13)

Yeah I forgot those can also get filled up by USNA/ROTC. But if it's what you ultimately want to do, better to try to lock it in early, whether it's direct to Intel/IW or executing an option, instead of banking on a lat transfer down the road that may or may not be possible.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yeah I forgot those can also get filled up by USNA/ROTC. But if it's what you ultimately want to do, better to try to lock it in early, whether it's direct to Intel/IW or executing an option, instead of banking on a lat transfer down the road that may or may not be possible.

yup, a person banking on a lat transfer is setting that person up for failure, if the OP's main goal is to be a USN officer he should apply for anything possible, if the OP's main goal is to be in the intelligence community then go to civilian organizations as the select rate into any IDC designator for non tech non AD is so very low.

 

[LFCFan]

Based on my limited time at NIOBC, there aren't as many technical degrees floating around as AW posts would lead you to believe, so take a shot at intel (we need to see a full ASTB to say how you'd fare with aviation). Hell, some of the priors even have non-tech online/for-profit degrees! Granted, I take it the board is weighing their operational experiences favorably.

Almost everyone I've met so far other than the lat transfer and aviation NPQs has more of a poli sci / international relations background, albeit usually with an advanced degree. You speak a language of a major ally in our Pacific pivot, which will probably stand out. You will definitely be able to work in aviation at some point, if not on your first tour as most do.

If it makes you feel better, we had to write profiles on ourselves for the instructors and yours sounds like it could have been one of them. I can't give you a solid idea of a competitive profile because intel is so ridiculously competitive.

 

[KennyPowers]

Yea I have been on USAJobs religiously as well, entry-level intel jobs are EXTREMELY rare and competition is very high in this economy. However, although I want to go to the IC one day, I still have the desire to be a navy officer. That is priority number one. Thank you all again for your advice, I REALLY appreciate it. I have decided that I will go ahead and take the whole ASTB next week so that I can apply for intel, aviation, and SWO in december.