The further decline of personal accountability...

[Recovering LSO]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/03/navy-commands-deserve-some-blame-for-pt-deaths-030711w/


I know the answer is 'yes', but is it really the command's fault when members don't comply with instructions? Fill out the F'ing PARFQ!

- Don't get me wrong - its tragic that these folks died. But, between this report and the recent covers of Navy Crimes it seems that people are forgetting that we are military fighting force and that you are expected to maintain some level of physical fitness...

The PRT isn't HARD. It's an embarrassment.

 

[Swanee]

What did the military do before PFTs? I seem to remember one of the old guys on the board saying that they didn't have PFTs in their day.

 

[CAMike]

What did the military do before PFTs? I seem to remember one of the old guys on the board saying that they didn't have PFTs in their day.

The recruiters looked at you and either told you that you are too fat to do this or you were OK and proceed. (Yeah I'm fat now so I can say that.)

Sheesh. Harden the F**** Up! Some of our DI's smoked cigarettes during the pre dawn morning runs and they kept a good pace with no problem. It might have even helped some, as nicotine dilates the blood vessels and promotes oxygen flow- right? SSGT Bowling and GYSGT Crenshaw (circa early 80's) if memory serves. God i didn't like GYSGT Crenshaw when he came in with bad hangovers. He seemed to enjoy his morning emotional release a bit too much.

 

[C420sailor]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/03/navy-commands-deserve-some-blame-for-pt-deaths-030711w/

Fill out the F'ing PARFQ!

It's ridiculous that we even need things like PARFQ, pre-activity ORM forms, etc.

 

[The Chief]

What did the military do before PFTs? I seem to remember one of the old guys on the board saying that they didn't have PFTs in their day.

Well I guess we have established that I am the oldest guy on the board, so ....

What is PFT and PARFQ? As far as exercise goes, there was never anything formal after book camp. I tried to have a semi-formal program but got so much flak it was not worth it. So many excuses - hurt my knee, I have a bad back, etc.

I do remember just before I left the Nav - ealy 70's - there was a Z-gram or whatnot that started a formal program. But I bet it would have been minimal.

And back then, if one was not fat or very fat they were considered "not healthy".

I do remember writing an eval for one of my E-6, was beyond obese, morbidly obese. I said obese in the eval, I had tried everything else, caught holy hell from my DH.

 

[wlawr005]

Well I guess we have established that I am the oldest guy on the board, so ....

What is PFT and PARFQ? As far as exercise goes, there was never anything formal after book camp. I tried to have a semi-formal program but got so much flak it was not worth it. So many excuses - hurt my knee, I have a bad back, etc.

I do remember just before I left the Nav - ealy 70's - there was a Z-gram or whatnot that started a formal program. But I bet it would have been minimal.

And back then, if one was not fat or very fat they were considered "not healthy".

I do remember writing an eval for one of my E-6, was beyond obese, morbidly obese. I said obese in the eval, I had tried everything else, caught holy hell from my DH.

Bingo, the Navy's physical readiness program is a fucking joke. Change the P/WS block to a score on the EVAL/FitRep and move on. You don't hear about dead Marines after a PFA. Instead of making boot camp harder and making physical standards higher throughout the year, they Navy will just make the PRT easier for everyone next year.

 

[Pugs]

SSGT Bowling and GYSGT Crenshaw (circa early 80's) if memory serves. God i didn't like GYSGT Crenshaw when he came in with bad hangovers. He seemed to enjoy his morning emotional release a bit too much.

He was Gunny Bowling when he was my DI in 86 and there's a gent here writing a book on AOCS who knew him and said he passed away at age 5X - Not exactly when I want to go.

 

[squorch2]

The PFT is a force shaping tool - it's an easy way to weed out people quickly. Hence why the score isn't tracked on your fitrep beyond pass/fail.

 

[wlawr005]

quickly? It takes 1.5 years to fail enough PRT's to get kicked out, plus the lame ass waiting around time for ADSEP. It just takes one promotion cycle to say "Sorry buddy, you can't reenlist because your PFT sucks" or "Sorry, we can't make you a first class petty officer because your PFT sucks."

I bet people's PFTs would start not to suck. Especially if they went so far as to say "Sorry, you didn't screen for DH because your PFT sucks."

 

[Gatordev]

quickly? It takes 1.5 years to fail enough PRT's to get kicked out, plus the lame ass waiting around time for ADSEP. It just takes one promotion cycle to say "Sorry buddy, you can't reenlist because your PFT sucks" or "Sorry, we can't make you a first class petty officer because your PFT sucks."

I bet people's PFTs would start not to suck. Especially if they went so far as to say "Sorry, you didn't screen for DH because your PFT sucks."

I don't understand your point. Yes it takes 3 cycles to kick someone out, but everything else you posted is already happening (except the DH thing). People are already not getting promoted (including to CO) for being out of standards. You also see a lot more fit Chiefs nowadays than you used to.

My question is what constitutes "sucking" on the PRT? If I run a 12:45 time (the limit for my age group...I think...honestly I don't know what it is), I've met the standard. Does my job require me to run it faster (other than administratively)? No, so what's the issue?

 

[wlawr005]

I think that the definition of "sucking" needs to be revised. Meeting the standards by scoring a Sat/Good on the PFA does not mean that you are leading the healthy lifestyle that the Navy seems to be pushing for. A physically fit Navy would be able to easily score Excellent/Outstanding on the PFA, the standards are not that difficult.

By changing the system from P/WS to an actual score (similar to the Marines) you would be able to use physical fitness as a screening measure, not just "did you run 1.5 without injuring yourself?"

Example: Two E-5's are in tied in competition for an EP, one has a 250 PFA, the other has a 290. This isn't a reinvention of the wheel, just more stringent standards of holding people accountable for the own physical fitness. The mentality would manifest into making working out a more important part of everyone's lifestyle. Right now there is no incentive to do better than 12:45...

 

[nittany03]

One thing they need to do is come up with a more realistic way of monitoring body fat and apply it across the board. If I ever hit the max weight for my height, I'd be on steroids or morbidly obese. But other people who are built like a square bust their ass just to stay in standards. I would bet there's quite a few "big boys" who aren't overweight, but are still an injury away from being out of standards due to their body type.

 

[wlawr005]

I agree, I'm 6'1" and I haven't weighed 206 since I was 18. I have a bigger build than most people and, if not working out properly, hover between 225 and 235. If I bust my ass I can get down to around 210, but that still gets me taped.

There is no cookie cutter solution for that one...basically it would come down to senior leadership at the unit level personally counseling those who look sloppy in their uniform and implementing "changes" to their lifestyle. You can tell if a person is fat, or big because they work out.

 

[squorch2]

Again, it's not about being healthy - it's a force shaping tool. Same with the rope and choke - it's quick, done easily, and tough to fake out. Whether or not this is a good thing is certainly up for debate, but quit treating these things like they're ways to evaluate who is healthy and who is not.

 

[feddoc]

Watch your tone mister, or I'll whack you with my cane.
PRT? None for me, thanks. I joined in 74, RAD in 78 to go to school (+ reserves for 3 years). There was no PRT of any sort. Came back to AD and the PRT had crowned it's ugly head.

What did the military do before PFTs? I seem to remember one of the old guys on the board saying that they didn't have PFTs in their day.