Ammo matters, who knew.....

[Bevo16]

About a month ago, my membership expired at the indoor range that I had been shooting at, and the local "Gun Club" (aka Mid-South Sport Shooting Association). The folks that run this 300+ acre establishment are really good folks and they take care of their local military members. Civilians have to pay a $500 initiation fee and then $240 yearly membership fee while Military members can join for only the $20 per month rate with nothing up front. They have two 100 yard ranges, trap, skeet, sporting clays, a cowboy action pistol "town", tactical pistol range, and a 900 yard long distance range.

I went out last weekend with a couple of boxes of mil-surplus ammo that Rocketman put me onto (at a really good price) when I first got my M1A and some hunting ammo to compare groups. About the best I could do with the mil-surplus was 5 shot groups at about 2 1/2 inches diameter, but there was something about that soft tip hunting ammo that my rifle did not like. That stuff was spraying out to 5 inch groups (I kept the brass though, so at least it's not totally worthless).

Frustrated that my "sub-MOA" rated rifle was not living up to billing (and knowing full well that the ammo I was shooting was not exactly premium stuff), I logged onto cheaperthandirt.com and ordered up some match ammo. Specifically 168 gr Federal Gold Medal Match with Sierra Match King bullets:

and Hornady 168gr Match rounds with A-Max bullets:

I set up at 100 yards, shot 10 rounds of each:
Military Surplus-Top Right
Federal/Sierra-Top Left
Hornady-Bottom Middle

There were a couple of "fliers" per 10 round magazine, but the groups were obviously a lot better.

I shot a couple more 5 shot groups with the match ammo (not pictured), fixed the windage, focused on my breathing, and then put down this group which was my best of the day:

The frustrating thing about this one is that top hole is the result of a guy sitting in the lane right next to me and letting his first round from a Garand go right as I was squeezing off the last one of this group. He made me f-up my picture. Still, with that flier thrown out, it's a 3/4 inch group.

I had a good conversation with another member who does a lot of hand loading, and he says that the only way that I am going to get the consistent sub MOA groups out of a gas gun is to reload. I know that is probably true, but I am still going to shoot a variety of other factory loads to see what my rifle likes.

Good times.

 

[nittany03]

Gas guns aren't exactly known for being brass-friendly either. My Garand loves to ding case mouths, and my PSL positively mauls its food.

 

[insanebikerboy]

...and he says that the only way that I am going to get the consistent sub MOA groups out of a gas gun is to reload...

In my experience that's true. Take it with a grain of salt though, because if you're going for the tightest group possible it's probably only gonna be from handloads, but it's very possible to find a plain-jane factory loaded ammo that'll give you the sub-MOA group as well.

 

[Bevo16]

I am hopeful that is the case. The extra trigger time is helping a lot too. I have only shot about 300 rounds with this rifle, and 200 of that was with open sights before I got my scope. Now that I am at shooting from a real bench (not a tailgate) on a real range, with the exact distances marked off, it's a lot easier to quantify improvement.

You have to prove that you can shoot 3 MOA (at 100 and 300 yards) to qualify to shoot on the long distance range. I'll probably go out and do that this week.

 

[CAMike]

I am hopeful that is the case. The extra trigger time is helping a lot too. I have only shot about 300 rounds with this rifle, and 200 of that was with open sights before I got my scope. Now that I am at shooting from a real bench (not a tailgate) on a real range, with the exact distances marked off, it's a lot easier to quantify improvement.

You have to prove that you can shoot 3 MOA (at 100 and 300 yards) to qualify to shoot on the long distance range. I'll probably go out and do that this week.

If you're not going to use a bullet comparator measuring device for reloading purposes. You may see some accuracy improvement by simply using a good copper solvent. Butch's Bore Shine or another moderate strength ammonia based copper solvent can work small wonders. No- Hoppe's is a powder solvent and does little to nothing for copper fouling in the bore which is a leading cause of patterns opening up. If you ever get a hold of a 30 cal comparator tool and make about 5 measurements using 5 different bullets (say in 168 grain weight) - forward me your measurements. I'll make you a short load work up out to 15 thousandths off the lands. You'll see what you barrel likes pretty quickly.

If that's not possible- you'll likely be pleasantly surprised what a little copper solvent can do for accuracy. If there is any bluish color on the jag patch - repeat copper solvent application not exceeding 10 minutes in overall total time (exposure to metal). It's amazing what Federal GMM 168 do in 95% of the barrels out there. The GMM powder formula is a statistical marvel for so many barrels out there.

Good job on the experimentation.

 

[Pugs]

I had a good conversation with another member who does a lot of hand loading, and he says that the only way that I am going to get the consistent sub MOA groups out of a gas gun is to reload. I know that is probably true, but I am still going to shoot a variety of other factory loads to see what my rifle likes.

He's likely right, even if he's not reloading is a ton of fun and the cost savings alone allow you to do a lot more shooting. resizing and trimming is a great opportunity to spend time with that boy of yours. It's not that expensive to get started and lots of stuff is available on E-Bay. It doesn't wear out so no fear of buying used.

Happy to help.

 

[Rocketman]

That's some pretty good shootin from an out of the box M1A using factory loads! My best "flier" story involves the first time I got hot brass down my shirt collar. It wasn't pretty but at least I didn't accidentally shoot anybody. Left a neat scar.

When you clean your M1A with an ammonia based solvent I was always told to clean the weapon with the gas tube up so the solvent won't get in the gas system. Makes sense to me. Also you probably already have one but if not you might want to pick up a good muzzle bore guide so your cleaning rod won't ding up the rifling at the bore. Dewy makes a good one as do others.

 

[E5B]

I started reloading this past winter. My groups shrunk considerably, not to mention it's cheaper and is just plain fun. It's great to be able to tailor a load to a specific rifle.

 

[ryan1234]

Do you all have any experience shooting Black Hills?

I've been pretty impressed with the Hornady 168gr BTHP Match moly-coat... although it was going through a bolt-gun.

 

[Floppy_D]

Frustrated that my "sub-MOA" rated rifle was not living up to billing

IMO, that term is abused. I think you're experiencing acceptable performance out of your rifle, and when you find the right ammo, it will sing a bit better.

As far as reloading for rifle goes, the single most important factor is your ability to seat the bullet exactly a couple hundredths from the lands of your rifle. The function is to have the bullet moving, but not at a super high rate, as it hits the lands. If the bullet is touching the lands as the gun fires, pressure tends to spike erratically (resulting in vertical stringing due to inconsistent velocity.) If the bullet is too far back (as is usually the case with commercial, one-size-fits-all ammo) then he bullet is making a longer jump before engaging the rifling. One of my reloading mentors explained to me the purpose for this with an analogy. Pretend you're in a car, getting ready to go over a speed bump. If you floor your car from 50 feet back, you'll hit the bump hard and get jarred around. If you sit on the bump and floor it, your engine will wind up harder than need be. From a few feet back, it's pretty smooth.

The Lee and Lyman's reloading manuals echo this as the most important step to accurate rifle reloading. A Lee anniversary kit can be found for less than $100 with all you need. As of now, I cast bullets in a dozen sizes, and reload everything but rimfire on a Dillon 550, Lee Anniversary, and RCBS RS2. It's a sickness.

p.s. Did that Aimpoint ever work out on your 22lr AR conversion?

 

[H60Gunner]

I started reloading this past winter. My groups shrunk considerably, not to mention it's cheaper and is just plain fun. It's great to be able to tailor a load to a specific rifle.

I am totally a believer in custom loads for accuracy. I knocked a Browning BLR chambered in .308 from over 2" with factory loads down to a consistant 1". The big difference came when I used an overall length gauge and set my OAL to almost touching the lands. No bullet jump.

 

[Pugs]

The big difference came when I used an overall length gauge and set my OAL to almost touching the lands. No bullet jump.

Yep, I start .050 off and vary by .010 to find the best load. Also highly recc a chronograph. They're cheap and very eye opening.

 

[Flugelman]

IMO, that term is abused. I think you're experiencing acceptable performance out of your rifle, and when you find the right ammo, it will sing a bit better.

As far as reloading for rifle goes, the single most important factor is your ability to seat the bullet exactly a couple hundredths from the lands of your rifle.

Gotta second this. My 30+ years of reloading experience affirms this. Primer and powder selection are important also. I usually work up loads with several combinations just to see what I get. Having a lot of extra loads to shoot just increases the fun.

 

[C420sailor]

Did you try shutting the gas port and cycling manually, just to see how the groups change? Supposedly the M14/M1A shoots tighter groups without that giant oprod flying up and down the barrel, but I've never seen proof (or tried it myself).

 

[nittany03]

Did you try shutting the gas port and cycling manually, just to see how the groups change? Supposedly the M14/M1A shoots tighter groups without that giant oprod flying up and down the barrel, but I've never seen proof (or tried it myself).

In other words, pay upwards of a grand for a straight-pull bolt-action?