MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Yep.. I learned Crud at the NASO O'Club a couple months back. And somehow managed to slip a disc while doing it.
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The End of the Officers Club
- Thread starter HeyJoe
- Start date
I agree with wanting to get away from work being one problem facing our peers, but I still see it as a leadership problem. The bottom line is why would I want to go to the Hawk and drink when in the same place it seems like I'm not treated like a grown man who can take a piss when he wants, or who can't be trusted to remember/not lose his room and rifle key so he has to dummy cord it to his effing pants pocket flap. The list goes on, but in a world where getting a ticket for not signaling while turning into a parking space will get your squad/platoon ranking dropped dramatically, no one wants to go have a beer. Alcohol is worse than Al Quada sometimes. But, I am still trying to fight the good fight. We didn't go to the O Club this weekend, instead we hit up the Capital Ale House. More beer, more ladies to look at, and no worries about my peers spear evalling me for getting drunk...
Sounds like you'll enjoy current overseas liberty policies then.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Said "Treat men like children" liberty policies is the only thing keeping me from putting Japan as my #1 choice out of the RAG. At least INCONUS I am treated somewhat like an adult when not on duty.
Ok, "pseudo-mando fun" may have been an overstatement. I know it's not going to be mandatory, but he seemed to want to encourage it more strongly for students. And I agree on his being an awesome guy...certainly my favorite AF hinge anyway
Another problem with the MBOC that nobody's mentioned directly yet is those big stupid signs - giant boards with flashing red lights that say "Unauthorized personnel turn around now" tend to discourage visitors in any form. And I strongly agree on the bus/band idea.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
2 words:
Date Auction
Make it happen guys.
Date Auction
Make it happen guys.
Go for it, the last few times I was there we got a few pretty intense games of crud going. There's a reason that pool table's so beat up. Heck, there's even a copy of the crud rules on the wall there, so it's definitely encouraged. Get Maj Johnson to ref, he always livens it up a bit more. See you friday
Yeah, people definitely play crud there all the time.
"Crud" is NOT for Naval Aviators; it's some limp AF attempt to capture the 'spirit' of a NAVY O'Club bar ... now rollin' for drinks ... or Klondike, Ship-Cap'n-Crew, ACE's, Liar's Dice, to name a few ... shuffleboard (learned @ CUBI BOQ bar), pool ... now THOSE are bar games for Naval Aviators.
So why go to the Club, anyway??
It WAS about 'bonding' ... male (?) bonding, if you must ... but certainly 'bonding' in the sense of Squadron mates, ship mates, brothers-in-arms, and squadron families (wives included) ... it was about getting to 'know' guys that you could 'go downtown' with on a 'rough day' .... those same guys with whom you might share your last moments in this life -- on a 'bad day'.
And then came TAILHOOK '91 ... and as everyone was lookin' for a scapegoat in the aftermath and some individuals had an agenda to push in any case and T-Hook '91 was a convenient launching pad ... one of the obvious (and easiest) targets was alcohol ... that 'drug' of choice for Officers & Gentlemen since the beginnings of the U.S. Navy ... and since 'Officers & Gentlemen' were at the heart of the 'Tailhook problem' ... it must be alcohol -- that demon rum -- the enabler of piss-poor behavior on the part of some -- it must be THAT alcohol that caused the 'problem', yea-as???
How do you rebuild the O'Club culture???
Can't happen anymore, you say ... ??
Do you do it w/ an AOM???
W/ Aviation Greens???
W/ a couple of 'heavies' showin' up???
Or perhaps w/ a general 'lighten-up & loosen-up' non-PC attitude accompanied by regular club activities/hours along w/the non-prejudicial use of alcohol ... but make no mistake: alcohol for the sake of alcohol was not the focus ... it's still just a 'tool' at the end of the day ... it's an 'icebreaker', if you will. Have you all sworn off camaraderie??? Sworn off drinking??? Sworn off espirit de corps?? Sworn off socializing?? Sworn off partying?? Of course not; you just don't do it 'ON BASE' anymore ... you know; that place where it used to be safest to let your hair down, drop the inhibitions, imbibe w/ brothers-in-arms, and get to know your squadron mates from a personal standpoint. You could even figure out who you liked and who you REALLY didn't like ... but no harm, no foul.
And I don't think the 'more women' thing will solve the problem, either ... while it's 'nice' for the single boys ... you have to make your own 'fun' ... and you will frequently have duty away from females of any sort/type other than those NOW in the 'Rons (in which case -- you're ALL bachelors in a sense) ... so it's really not an issue, unless you're lookin' for a date ? Or L-O-V-E ... or a wife. Look somewhere other than in a bar -- just a suggestion.
If the O'Club is a lo$$-leader for a while ... so what?? You waste taxpayer money in soooooooooooooooooo many other ways in government, it's not even an issue -- or it shouldn't be. What part of the squadron/NAS at large turns a profit as an operating goal?? Why would any sane individual think the O'Club should then ??? The Club and the camaraderie it can promote will pay big dividends at the end of the day, and we're not talkin' those of a monetary nature.
So how do you get there -- restoring the O'Clubs?? It will require some courage at all levels ... especially in the senior ranks. The younger guys 'want' the traditions and camaraderie of their predecessors; I'll assume that's a given.
Call off the Shore Patrol, for starters ... don't put an individual's career at risk for socializing on base in a manner that would not cause a passing glance outside the gate. Don't assume the worst of your Officers just because the lights are on and the band is playing @ the O'Club on a FRI/SAT night. They're OFFICERS ... not children ... not another disciplinary problem waiting to happen. If you can trust 'em w/ a multi-million dollar aircraft and the lives of many ... can't you trust 'em at the O'Club bar on Friday night ... ??? Disclaimer: while alcohol abuse DID happen ... it was usually an individual and personal failing and an individual's abuse took no one 'by surprise'. In any case, we never/seldom had ANY Officer knee-walkin' drunk @ the O'Club or any official or unofficial function ... if someone was heading that way --- his AMIGOs would steer him a new course and/or take the potential 'problem' HOME. Problem solved -- at least to the degree that it could be in the short term or could affect 'work' ... if a person is determined to self-destruct on his/her own time due to personal failings or addictions ... you can't stop 'em (the self destructive) -- by killing the Officers Club.
The current policies are wrong-headed, stupid, denigrating, simplistic --- they are morale-killers --- and they relegate all of you to the status of children who must be 'watched' .... instead of treating you like the men & women and leaders that you are ...
It will require leadership and people who are willing to put the good of the unit & the Service ahead of themselves ... it will require rolling back a PC tide of wrong-headed thinking re: the social mores and attitudes of the Naval Officer Corps that started heading south in a death-spiral 15+ years ago ...
It can happen ... but not if you think it 'too hard'. In that case, quit bitching and accept your saccharin, PC Naval Aviation lifestyle ...
I certainly do not have all the 'answers', if I did, I'd be runnin' the place ... just some disjointed thoughts from a mean ol' ha'ole man ... just my $20 worth ...
So why go to the Club, anyway??
It WAS about 'bonding' ... male (?) bonding, if you must ... but certainly 'bonding' in the sense of Squadron mates, ship mates, brothers-in-arms, and squadron families (wives included) ... it was about getting to 'know' guys that you could 'go downtown' with on a 'rough day' .... those same guys with whom you might share your last moments in this life -- on a 'bad day'.
And then came TAILHOOK '91 ... and as everyone was lookin' for a scapegoat in the aftermath and some individuals had an agenda to push in any case and T-Hook '91 was a convenient launching pad ... one of the obvious (and easiest) targets was alcohol ... that 'drug' of choice for Officers & Gentlemen since the beginnings of the U.S. Navy ... and since 'Officers & Gentlemen' were at the heart of the 'Tailhook problem' ... it must be alcohol -- that demon rum -- the enabler of piss-poor behavior on the part of some -- it must be THAT alcohol that caused the 'problem', yea-as???
How do you rebuild the O'Club culture???
Can't happen anymore, you say ... ??
Do you do it w/ an AOM???
W/ Aviation Greens???
W/ a couple of 'heavies' showin' up???
Or perhaps w/ a general 'lighten-up & loosen-up' non-PC attitude accompanied by regular club activities/hours along w/the non-prejudicial use of alcohol ... but make no mistake: alcohol for the sake of alcohol was not the focus ... it's still just a 'tool' at the end of the day ... it's an 'icebreaker', if you will. Have you all sworn off camaraderie??? Sworn off drinking??? Sworn off espirit de corps?? Sworn off socializing?? Sworn off partying?? Of course not; you just don't do it 'ON BASE' anymore ... you know; that place where it used to be safest to let your hair down, drop the inhibitions, imbibe w/ brothers-in-arms, and get to know your squadron mates from a personal standpoint. You could even figure out who you liked and who you REALLY didn't like ... but no harm, no foul.
And I don't think the 'more women' thing will solve the problem, either ... while it's 'nice' for the single boys ... you have to make your own 'fun' ... and you will frequently have duty away from females of any sort/type other than those NOW in the 'Rons (in which case -- you're ALL bachelors in a sense) ... so it's really not an issue, unless you're lookin' for a date ? Or L-O-V-E ... or a wife. Look somewhere other than in a bar -- just a suggestion.
If the O'Club is a lo$$-leader for a while ... so what?? You waste taxpayer money in soooooooooooooooooo many other ways in government, it's not even an issue -- or it shouldn't be. What part of the squadron/NAS at large turns a profit as an operating goal?? Why would any sane individual think the O'Club should then ??? The Club and the camaraderie it can promote will pay big dividends at the end of the day, and we're not talkin' those of a monetary nature.
So how do you get there -- restoring the O'Clubs?? It will require some courage at all levels ... especially in the senior ranks. The younger guys 'want' the traditions and camaraderie of their predecessors; I'll assume that's a given.
Call off the Shore Patrol, for starters ... don't put an individual's career at risk for socializing on base in a manner that would not cause a passing glance outside the gate. Don't assume the worst of your Officers just because the lights are on and the band is playing @ the O'Club on a FRI/SAT night. They're OFFICERS ... not children ... not another disciplinary problem waiting to happen. If you can trust 'em w/ a multi-million dollar aircraft and the lives of many ... can't you trust 'em at the O'Club bar on Friday night ... ??? Disclaimer: while alcohol abuse DID happen ... it was usually an individual and personal failing and an individual's abuse took no one 'by surprise'. In any case, we never/seldom had ANY Officer knee-walkin' drunk @ the O'Club or any official or unofficial function ... if someone was heading that way --- his AMIGOs would steer him a new course and/or take the potential 'problem' HOME. Problem solved -- at least to the degree that it could be in the short term or could affect 'work' ... if a person is determined to self-destruct on his/her own time due to personal failings or addictions ... you can't stop 'em (the self destructive) -- by killing the Officers Club.
The current policies are wrong-headed, stupid, denigrating, simplistic --- they are morale-killers --- and they relegate all of you to the status of children who must be 'watched' .... instead of treating you like the men & women and leaders that you are ...
It will require leadership and people who are willing to put the good of the unit & the Service ahead of themselves ... it will require rolling back a PC tide of wrong-headed thinking re: the social mores and attitudes of the Naval Officer Corps that started heading south in a death-spiral 15+ years ago ...
It can happen ... but not if you think it 'too hard'. In that case, quit bitching and accept your saccharin, PC Naval Aviation lifestyle ...
I certainly do not have all the 'answers', if I did, I'd be runnin' the place ... just some disjointed thoughts from a mean ol' ha'ole man ... just my $20 worth ...
A4s for SECNAV. No, really.
I second.
a BAC of .01 on base will get you a dewey.
What's a 511 card? like a tipsy taxi card? I like Hozer's bus idea best. If a bus ran to the club on most any bases, it'd be the easiest/cheapest way to not get a dui and still make it back to sleep in your own bed at night.
What's a 511 card? like a tipsy taxi card? I like Hozer's bus idea best. If a bus ran to the club on most any bases, it'd be the easiest/cheapest way to not get a dui and still make it back to sleep in your own bed at night.
It's like a tipsy taxi, you call 511 and they came and got you. You'd get delivered back home free of charge. I used it out in town after missing the trolly.